If Ron had said that about Schilling, I might have replied differently...as Scuba said, it would be stating the obvious to comment on their heart vs the Sox.

Speaking of my Sox - Pedro just finished his 7th inning of shutout work. They just showed a guy in the Cards bullpen, sweeping with a broom. Can you say foreshadow?

__________________

What a game so far. Pedro pitched a dandy of a game. Great defensive play by Manny in the first, throwing out Walker at the plate.

Fox just replayed the moment the Yankees lost it all in Game 4 with the hit off of Mariano Rivera up the middle.

And now the rain is coming down with Foulke getting ready to take the mound.

__________________


Aruba for me

Uh-oh! Three And O!

__________________


Aruba for me

Exactly 18 years ago, Boston choked game 6 against the Mets. Tonight is redemption!

After the game was over last night, my wife said 'so it's pretty much over, right?' How quickly they forget - I told her that StL is in the same spot Boston was in with the Yanks, and we all know how that turned out. It's never over until that last out is done, but the Sox know that better than anyone. If the Sox lose, it'll have to be done by outdoing the Yanks and having the biggest collapse in sports history - again!

Git 'er done Sox! Celebrate in Yankee Stadium and in Busch, both hallowed baseball grounds, and begin the new era in style. Fenway will be waiting for you! The funny thing is, Mark 'statue' Bellhorn is as likely a candidate for MVP as anyone else. Pedro was a stud last night, I hope it wasn't his last turn for the Sox...

__________________

Yes, but unlike the Yankees, the Sox have Schilling and Pedro waiting in the wings to close it out if need be.

If D-Lowe has another game like he did against the Yankees, then it's over.

__________________


Aruba for me

Here's a follow-up story on the woman killed in Boston last week:
http://www.comcast.net/News/DOMESTIC...f1cc3ff3d.html

Definitely smells like a lawsuit - all this is such a tragic byproduct of the teams success this year.

And can anyone now dispute my earlier claim that this team will go down in history as one of the great teams of all time?? And I'm not saying greatest, just great - they are a team in the truest sense of the word, and they are very unique, and they are very very good. They're name may not be as memorable as the Gas House Gang, but these Idiots will be long remembered - whether or not RonB agrees with me. Long live the Idiots!!

I can imagine (at least in Boston) there will be many Johnny Damon Halloween costumes out there this year...

__________________

I am back. As the token "fair weather sox fan", i guess that I was premature in announcing that the fat lady was warming up when the sox were down against Yankees.

I may even watch tonight.

Also too, sounds a bit odd, but hey that's me.......I bought a red sox flag today. Went to dad's grave and stuck the flag into the ground next to the headstone. He truly was a sox fan. Dad had been to many Fenway games and has/had many many autographed balls that my son inherited (including Babe Ruth and the entire impossible dream yr team 1967 where every one of them signed)
Red Sox won world series #1 and will most likey win # 100.

That story is awful! That poor girl's family.

Regarding Johnny Damon costumes - are Magilla Gorilla costumes still available?? (sorry, couldn't resist)

What is the Gas House Gang?

__________________

WOOHOO!!!! Go Sox!!!! I think tonite is THE NITE!!!! Lets get this party started!!!! arty: Hell has finally definitely frozen over!!!! (We'll need to sleep for month straight after this!)

We are the Champions, we are the champions.....
Of the WORLD

RED SOX SWEEP THE CARDINALS

Or should I say Card-Nils?

__________________


Aruba for me

So the 2004 Sox become the latest Boston team to take advantage of St. Louis.

New England Patriots beat the Rams in the 2002 Super Bowl
Bruins swept the Blues for the 1970 Stanley Cup
Celtics won their first NBA title by defeating the Hawks in 1957.

__________________


Aruba for me

Congratulations to the Sox and all their fans. 86 years is a long time to wait. Being a lifelong Cards fan, I have mixed emotions. I wanted the Cards to win, but I also wanted the Sox to win. Does that make any sense? I think its because now the Yankees will have to SHUT UP(havnt heard from any of them lately). They always irritate me when they talk. Anyway, I have had the pleasure of seeing the Cards win it all several times before, so my hats off to the Red Sox for winning 8 in a row. I thought St Louis pitching was suspect all season, and it was. Sox pitchers were dominant. I hope both of these teams will stay intact through the free agency thing. I hope the Cards get a couple of pitchers for next season. Maybe we will meet again.

Why is that, bob??

__________________

Congrats to the Sox and their fans!!!

Thanks to the Cards for going down quickly and quietly. (I need the sleep).

Back in the 30s? the Cards team picked up the nickname Gas House Gang. Don't know why.

The cards got the nickname "gashouse gang" because they went on a long road trip(by Bus) and could not get their uniforms cleaned on the trip. The reporters that followed them started refering to them as the gashouse gang because of the smell. True story. Corrine, What I meant to say was that some of my friends that have been lifelong yankee fans think the yankees are the only team there is and are always bragging about them. If the yankees arnt in it, it doesnt matter. to them.

Thanks stefa and bob for the info on the Cardinals. Yikes! I guess on this side of the woods, I never heard that.

I sometimes brag about the Yanks, too, but I think I am the first to admit when they screw up, like this year.

__________________

Just got back from a trip to the University of Rhode Island with daughter. We felt like we were in enemy-territory!! Talk all day of Red Sox, Red Sox Parade, "Yankee Sux" t-shirts everywhere and Boston Red Sox caps SOLD IN THE BOOKSTORE!

Ok, Ok, I concede!

__________________

Just wait until April.
By luck of the draw, the Sox home opener at Fenway when they hoist their World Series banner is against the Yankees.

__________________


Aruba for me

I just read that this morning! Can't wait. Thankfully, I'll be here in my home territory when it happens!

Maybe we'll have Beltran or Randy Johnson.

__________________

OK OK, I know I'm late to the party (just got back from fishing in Florida for 2 weeks), so I'll be humble (hah!) and brief:

I predicted this.

__________________

Fox did a story before one of the Sox/Cards games, with the announcer reading from a print article:

"Their uniforms don't fit, they stink, they all have bad hair" etc, and they were showing some of the more 'unique' Sox players as they spoke. After finishing the description, they said that it wasn't a story about the Sox, it was about the Gashouse Gang. I never knew the reason for the name (thanks Bob), but as a fan I've heard of that team.

'Idiots' isn't as catchy a name, but as I've said many times, they will be remembered for a long time:

Swept a very good team in the ALDS;
Came back from 3-0 (after giving up 19 runs in game 3!), against their hated rival and supposed best team in the AL, to win the ALCS;
Swept the team with the best record in the majors to win the World Series.

Won 8 straight in the same postseason, NEVER been done.
Came back from 3-0, NEVER been done.
And then there's their hair...

__________________

Ooooh, kevin........................:

This is from the AP Headlines:

Pitcher Pedro Meets 'Daddy' Steinbrenner
Wed Nov 17, 8:32 AM

NEW YORK - Pedro Martinez visited the enemy Tuesday, meeting with Yankees owner George Steinbrenner at New York's spring training complex in Tampa, Fla.

Taking aim at the World Series champion Boston Red Sox, Steinbrenner talked at Legends Field with the free-agent right-hander.

Martinez was accompanied by agents Fernando Cuza and Pat Rooney. New York vice presidents Mark Newman, Billy Connors and Damon Oppenheimer also attended.

"We had a good meeting," Steinbrenner said in a statement, without elaborating.

Said Cuza: "I think it's the same way. It was good."

Boston general manager Theo Epstein did not immediately return a telephone call seeking comment. The Red Sox reportedly made a recent two-year offer to the ace.

__________________

Absolutely unequivocally positively 0% chance he's pitching for the Yanx next season - I'll stake my rep as swami on it. They'll hire their share of players, but Pedro won't be one of them. I do agree that Yanks need pitching in the worst way, much more than they need to get more center fielders (Beltran) - they've already committed millions and millions to Bernie and Lofton and Giambi...George likes his toys though, and Beltran is definitely the beanie baby of this year's crop.

Theo, if you're reading this (I know you are), give Pedro what he's worth. Let's win another one next year, just to blow up the Bronx.

__________________

You'll notice that the Cashman was not included in that list of people at the meeting.


The Boss hasn't landed Pedro yet, and he's already using him.

__________________


Aruba for me

Pedro is also using the Boss. I can't blame him though...

__________________

Pedro went to George here guys. What 's the problem? Why would he do that?

__________________

Actually George is in Tampa (I believe so anyway), and Pedro went there just to get an offer so he knows what he's 'worth'. Anaheim will offer him a lot, plus probably a 3rd year, then it's up to the Sox to match what the Yanks and Angels are offering. As Scuba noted, Yanx GM Cashman wasn't part of the meeting, which tells me it wasn't very serious. Pedro met yesterday with Sox brass, including Theo the Wonderboy...

__________________

You know honestly, I'd rather have Pedro than Randy Johnson. The Yanks don't need another aging prima donna who get can get hurt.

__________________

Not ot mention Johnson's back problems either. Although he's really performed in Arizona. Except for 2003 he's some of his best seasons there.

__________________


Aruba for me

That's what I mean. We already have Kevin "my hand, back etc. hurts" Brown!

__________________

I just thought I would bring this thread up to the front again, since the season is upon us.
New notes from here - everyone is please with Pedro so far, but is waiting for his mouth to start shooting off. It is quite shocking to start baseball season in NY with the following:
Red Sox actually winning the WS, the Yanks being the first team to lose after being ahead by 3 games, Al Leiter and John Franco gone from the Mets, Pedro, Beltran and Miguel Cairo on the Mets, Giambi, who made Tino Martinez lose his spot, now has to compete for his spot... with Tino, the hated RJ is a Yankee, 30 year beloved Yankee Willie Randolph is a Met, and the best for last...David Wells is on the Sox. (just wait - you guys won't be smirking about Kevin Brown for long)
How are your teams doing?

__________________

Great quote by Bob Kraft in a special commemorative issue of SI. When he hired Belichick in 2000, that Pats were $10 million over salary cap. His first season as Head Coach the Pats went 5-11.

Kraft said; "It was a rude awakening...We paid so many guys, and we were still losing. We had to shut off the financial spigot."

Maybe Steinbrenner should take lessons from Kraft in how to run a team and win Championships.

I heard that because of the way he throws money around looking for that one player, that the Yankees are actually the least profitable team in baseball.

__________________


Aruba for me

I read an article about that in the Washington Post, explaining how the Yanks are so much less profitable than people think. I'll try to find it and post it here, so maybe someone can explain it to me - it had some sort of parallel to the debt-to-income ratio that we work with when buying a home, and it was put into use around 2002 specifically because of the way the Yanks were spending. It also had a direct effect on whether or not they would pursue Beltran - basically, if they had signed him to (example) a $100 million contract, it actually would have cost them $135 million...

Corrine, nice job wrapping up the bizarre way we start 2005 - who woulda thunk it?

PITCHERS AND CATCHERS REPORT

__________________

Kevin - I can't take all the credit - it was mentioned in yesterday's paper.

Regarding the Yank's budget/spending - Guys, no one cares but you! Why are non-Yank fans so preoccupied with it?? Jealous?? Yank fans do not discuss the budget/spending of other teams. (The NY Mets are almost as high) Why does it matter - they obviously are not winning as much lately.

__________________

The reason we care about the Yanks spending is that it blows away the concept of equality. It's not just 'us', it's MLB - they are the ones that inserted this new math to basically penalize teams that spend too much. What I was trying to describe is not a salary cap, but it's something designed to at least make teams think twice before signing another check. Also, why would the Yanks discuss other teams' spending? It would only draw attention to their own imperial ways...

You're right, the Mets (and Bosox) are also very high, but something has to be done to keep it from going completely insane. It's not jealousy, it's just a desire for a level field. That's why basketball and football (leagues that are thriving) have salary caps, and look at the parity - despite the fact that NE wins it every year, each season produces a few surprise contenders, because one or two teams can't simply buy whoever they want. Why do you think hockey isn't playing right now? #1 issue is a salary cap - the league needs it, but the players don't want it.

The fact that NY isn't winning lately is just gravy on the taters of the other lesser-spending teams. To be specific, they are indeed winning (best record in the AL again last year), just not when it counts.

And a note to Scube - the Skins had the highest payroll (again) last year, and have made the playoffs once in the last 12 years or so. They need to realize the same thing that Kraft did, and build the right way. Ever since Gibbs left (the first time) and their longtime owner JK Cooke died, it's been spend-spend lose-lose fire-fire. It's only because they generate so much money that they still turn a profit, but fans won't fill the stadium to see a loser forever...

__________________

I do see your point, kevin. We fans do suffer by the increasing price of tickets. I haven't been complaining, since I usually go with my husband's boss's season tickets. But I don't see a solution, with the Player's union so strong, owner's willing to pay and advertisers willing to pay top dollar for TV ads. I don't know about you, but last year, I noticed alot more breaks for TV ads in the games. It drives me crazy, since it breaks up the game and our enjoyment of it.

__________________

Corrine---I absolutely agree with you....sad to say, but I would NOT pay for tickets to see ANY major league sport...first of all I'd rather spend my money in Aruba...lol...second, a lot of us in Mass. (up until the World Series Win) have gravitated towards the Minor leaque and local baseball teams, you know, the ones where they play because they actually love the game!!!! The tickets are much cheaper, and a family of four doesn't have to mortgage thier house to go to a game!!!!

I agree with both of you - the minor league games are where it's at, you can go as a family and spend in total what it costs just to park at the MLB park...

Every time Loren says something in amazement about someone's salary being 20 million a year (Giambi!), I explain to her that it's not him you should hate for it, it's the owners...but that it's not them either, it's THE FANS. As long as we pay the rising costs for seats/parking/beer, the owners can afford the salaries. I haven't been to a game in 3 years, partly because of that - I know it's not working, but it's in hope that others stay away as well and ownership has less to spend on players. It's been easy for me, because I don't live in Boston - if I did my principles would be out the window with my paycheck!

The solution is a salary cap, but Corrine you're right - the union is far too strong to allow it. Why would they, when they can make $20 mil a year? Ownership demanding it would result in a situation similar to the NHL, where a season (or more) would be lost fighting for it. Speaking of which, I think the players assoc. finally caved and agreed to one in the NHL...

__________________

Out East on Long Island, there is a Minor League Ball Park too. I know large families are going in droves. I believe they are the LI Ducks and were owned by Bud Harrelson. Recently, they started the Brooklyn Cyclones at Coney Island. It is IMPOSSIBLE to get tixx to their games, it's so popular!

Like April said, the money is better spent in Aruba! I go to Met or Yankee games for "free" but after a couple of $7 beers and $5 hot dogs in addition to $20 parking, it sure isn't cheap.

kevin - Is THAT why the NHL is out? I didn't know that. I live 10 minutes from where the Islanders play and we missed going this season. Hockey games can be alot of fun. I've followed the Islanders since the days of Bobby Nystrom and Clark Gillies. (showing my age again)

__________________

Aw Corrine, I've missed your patented logo

Yes, that's the main reason the NHL isn't playing - it's not a players strike, it's an owners lockout. They want a salary cap, and the players don't. The players finally conceded to it, but now their bickering over what the cap will be (a difference of about 6 million dollars ). The season may still actually be saved if they can agree today, and it will be a joke if they can't compromise between 42 and 48 million after all this wrangling. Maybe the bigger joke is that there is still a season to save - it's mid-February already! A 25 game sprint to the playoffs?

__________________

They can't live on $42 million a year????? How do the rest of us manage on way less??? I don't feel sorry for them either. But you know idiot fans will rush to the games if they start up again.

PS - What's with Trot Nixon's mouth again?? "Alex Rodrieguez is not a true Yankee???" What's it to him?? He needs to worry about his own team!

__________________

You know Corrine--your right again....Boston team players need to focus...they have a LOT to live up to this year....cut your own grass and don't worry about anyone elses property!!! I never went along with this BOS-N>Y>Yankees rivalry...let's keep it simple here...when you win a championship, it's because you are the best team!!! Not a hard concept to understand....Last year the Red Sox lost simply because they did not play as a team....too many wanabe heros..The Yankees have won many championships because they play as a team...Same with the Patriots.....

Kevin, thanks for explaining the "Cap" thing, their is a lot I have to learn about professional teams...but there is one thing that is very clear...GREED!!!

The 42 million is for the total team's salary (example Yanks = $200+ million), not one player's. Still a plenty-big number...I think a good definition of greed is when millionaires and billionaires can't agree on a number that's fair for all of them - and the result is a loss for us common folk that pay their salaries. Duh!


I haven't heard Trot's quote, but I agree with you - what's it to him? A-Rod's only been there for 1 year, so maybe he's not a 'true' Yankee yet, but so what?
I believe the Sox WON last year, precisely because they DID play as a team.

I fully enjoy the Yanks/Sox rivalry, even before we actually won last year. It's always been kind of a Road Runner vs Wile E. Coyote existence, but still fun. You have to have a nemesis to excel, otherwise life is too easy or uneventful.

__________________

I have been following this thread for a very long time and thought I would add my 2 cents. I have been a sports nut my whole life. I remember the first Red Sox game my Gramps brought me too in 1967, I was 4 yrs old. As I got older and became a huge Boston sports fan, I couldn't wait for the day that I could bring my own son into ball games and let him enjoy the great sports that are in this area. He is 11 now and unfortunately he has been to only 1 Patriots game, 3 Red Sox games, and about a dozen Celtics games. ( My buddy works for the Celtics so tickets are more available.)

2 tickets to one Red Sox game $150 (mid-range price)
Parking close enough to walk to Fenway $25
2 Beers, 2 sodas, 4 hot dogs, popcorn and peanuts $40
Gas, souvenir, program, etc. $40
Taking your son to his first game at Fenway park: Priceless Hah! Overpriced!

It is time for all sports to have a salary cap. All teams need to take a page out of the Patriots book. Sacrifice a high pay scale, coaches that work and get along with the players, bring in quality management, unselfish players = Winning and Championships.
We now spend more time going to minor league games and watch players that actually work hard and play hard. Obviously they are playing hard so that they can reach the next level and higher pay scale but I no longer want to pay to go see lazy overpaid athletes underachieve. Except for the Patriots!

It is indeed hard to pay what it takes to go to a MLB park. Because I live in N. VA, I have been regularly to the Orioles stadiums - first Memorial and now Camden Yards. With both, my favorite seats have been the bleachers, cheap and blue collar, and I would go to a few O's/Sox games each year. It is still possible to get a seat there for $35 or so, but I haven't been back since I got married (imagine that?). Now that DC's getting a team, maybe I'll go there once in a while, even if they are in the (horror of horrors) National League.

Ever since I sat on Yaz's lap as a youngster, I've been a Sox fan. From the 70's thru '03 I suffered with them, and came back strong every year - '86 took a bit longer to recover from, but I never wavered in my devotion. I've only been to Fenway once (to see the Yanks of course), and to the Bronx Zoo twice (to see the Sox of course). Hopefully some of the many Sox fans on this BB will find it in their hearts to push a couple Sox tix my way for my 40th birthday this year . Loren is actually a fan thanks to last year's run, and would love to see the holy land.

Pats have definitely used the right blueprint for success, hopefully others will follow. I've watched Dan Snyder try and buy a championship for the Redskins (Bruce Smith, Deion Sanders, Steve Spurrier) and fail miserably. Desire is worth paying for, a pampered turned up nose is not.

__________________

Interesting reading: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1991608

Apparently, despite Cashman's denial, the Yanks removed some language about steroids from Giambi's contract before he would sign it. You'd think that request/demand would raise a flag, just as Cashman said in his denial...

__________________

The MLBPA is probably the single strongest union in the US today, bar none. I doubt you'll ever see a cap in baseball. The so-called luxury tax is about all you'll see. So the Yankees have had to pay every year it has been in exisitance. For 2004 they got taxed at 30% and for 2005 they'll get hit with a 40% tax.

On a lighter side, here's a funny news story:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ba...p-217098c.html

__________________


Aruba for me

Pinghr - Well said!!!!! I hope you can take your son to more games in the future.

Scube - enjoyed that article about Brooklyn and Johnny Damon!

kevin - have you thought about getting tickets to the Sox on ebay?? (Pinghr -you too) I got my Yankee Old Timer's Day (no comments, please, kevin and scuba) tixx that way. You could plan a mini trip to Boston too. Believe it or not, I love Boston as a city to visit.

April - Nixon was carrying on about how Jeter, Posada and Williams are "true Yankees" not ARod. I think he has too much time on his hands!

__________________

I'm sorry Kevin..I meant when they LOST the year before....I truly enjoyed this last SOX/YANKEE encounter because they both played as a team....it was intense...good baseball in the sense that there was no time for pushing and shoving....