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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Monday, June 25th, 2007, 10:12 PM
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Default Crime In Aruba

Can someone tell me if there is an ongoing problem with crime in Aruba.
I've heard there are gangs running around, and that a police cruiser was
torched. Also there is supposed to be some harrassment of American's. I
was there 2 yrs. ago and never heard none of this going on. Also a lot of
drugs moving in from South America. Is the Arubian government trying to
keep this quiet so it won't affect the tourist industry?
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Old Tuesday, June 26th, 2007, 12:11 AM
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Default Re: Crime In Aruba

Quote:
ORANJESTAD A big fight between several gangs of youths in the vicinity of the Weststraat and Royal Plaza got completely out of hand last Saturday morning. A police car was hijacked and was found again totally burnt down in the vicinity of Sta. Cruz. The police from Oranjestad received assistance from their colleagues from San Nicolas.

The problems started when the police handcuffed and conveyed a suspect. After one the gang-members was hit by a flying bottle, about 100 started to fight with each other near Royal Plaza . The tension mounted when the police fired a warning shot. According to witnesses, the group yelled at the police that they have guns too and that they are not afraid.

When two police officers wanted to cuff a person, somebody in the public called that other troublemakers have hijacked a police car. Several members of the gangs were arrested. The police had to use the baton to calm down the troublemakers some. The owners of the entertainment places Carlos n Charlies and Bahia were ordered to close the doors. There was also commotion at the Emergency Room of the hospital. The injured young persons that were taken there for treatment, wanted to have a scrap with everything and everybody.
To me this was an isolated incident. Mix young people with lots of alcohol
and tempers will and can be short. I don't think Aruba is trying to hide
anything. Aruba isn't perfect but it may be as close as you can get right
now. Tourism is up 15%, I'm sure they are feeling some growing pains in
civil service areas, not everyone is cut out to be a cop and on top of
that, you don't become a cop over nite.

Later,
millertime
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Old Tuesday, June 26th, 2007, 06:18 AM
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Default Re: Crime In Aruba

miller, you are right. it's growing pains in civil service areas because as everywhere, with population expansion there is also a shortage of police. it's also a learning curve. as the population learns to copy other countries and the young start to get out of hand, the justice system must change what it does to stop it. the gang problem seems to be an isolated incident.

aruba didn't keep it quiet. it is in their local aruban papers as well as amigoe.com. the papers we read there are really not news, they are tourist information. it's very much like baltimore's 'city paper' that is geared toward tourists and local entertainment. no cover up involved.

i am not making light of the problem though. we have to realize that nowhere is 100% safe. always watch your back even in aruba. the reason these items shock us so much is there is not that much crime there. but that doesn't mean we have to be stupid and forget that aruba may be our paradise but it is filled with humans and we do have flaws.

Quote:
Originally Posted by millertime View Post
To me this was an isolated incident. Mix young people with lots of alcohol
and tempers will and can be short. I don't think Aruba is trying to hide
anything. Aruba isn't perfect but it may be as close as you can get right
now. Tourism is up 15%, I'm sure they are feeling some growing pains in
civil service areas, not everyone is cut out to be a cop and on top of
that, you don't become a cop over nite.

Later,
millertime
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Old Tuesday, June 26th, 2007, 06:40 AM
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Default Re: Crime In Aruba

Crime is on the rise in Aruba. This riot downtown signals a new problem that may be evolving there....gangs and gang wars. Will the police be able to handle this?? We'll see. However, Aruba is still your SAFEST bet in the Caribbean. It is a "must visit" for everyone.
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Old Tuesday, June 26th, 2007, 07:56 AM
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Wink Re: Crime In Aruba

Compared to Jamaica who records over a 1,000 murders a year, (surpassing even Detroit, which I am 20 miles from) I will take Aruba ANYDAY !!!! Petty crime is in Aruba, yes some dumb kids acted like idiots a few weeks ago....but for me it is the safest place in the Caribbean, hell it's safer than my own city.....
I lived in Aruba from 93-2000 and I felt safer on the island than in the USA where I have been robbed at gunpoint, 2 cars stolen and one home break in.........so I wouldn't worry myself over a teenage melee...go to Aruba and have a great time !
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Old Tuesday, June 26th, 2007, 08:12 AM
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Default Re: Crime In Aruba

I am in 100% agreement with the opinions I am reading on this thread. I really don't believe that Aruba has all of a sudden been taken over by organized gangs. I just got back a couple of weeks ago and during my most recent stay on the island, I did not experience or see anything that made me even slightly uneasy. And it is also obvious to me that the situation is a high priorty on the island. No one is going to claim that this incident was "covered up."

Utopia does not exist. The world is changing and so is Aruba but, for me, Aruba is still a near ideal society.
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Old Tuesday, June 26th, 2007, 08:41 AM
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Default Re: Crime In Aruba

We are confident that the authorities in Aruba are capable of handling the sudden upsurge in crime. The key to remaining a number one tourist attraction is to make it pleasant for tourists to continue to come to the island. The government is well aware of this. In all our years of going to Aruba, we have never once encountered a 'sticky situation'. We don't expect this to change because of isolated incidences that can occur just about anywhere on this planet.
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Old Tuesday, June 26th, 2007, 04:50 PM
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Default Re: Crime In Aruba

I felt very uneasy during my last trip to the island in March. My rental car was surrounded twice as I drove by the RIU resort during a labor change...both times workers jumped in front of my car while other workers tried surrounding it in hopes I guess that they could stop the car...little did they know that I would have hit them if they didn't get out of the way.

Also, another PLBR member was mugged on the sidewalk while walking back from the Westin and was badly beaten and robbed by three men who disappeared into the RIU construction fenced area.....also, very close friends were robbed in their rental home while they slept and their jewerly, camera, some cash, binoculars, etc along with their wallets were stolen.

We were also "followed" twice early in the evening walking back up along the front sidewalk from Salt n Peppers to Playa Linda.....

So, I was A LOT more aware this trip and had creepy feelings in the evening everytime we went out. Will it stop me from returning? Not in 2008 it won't, but down the road it might. I'm from NY and I'm quite used to feeling creepy, but I don't need to spend this kind of money in a place where my concerns were laughed at to feel creepy. I saw no visability teams on Palm Beach the whole three weeks I was there and no police presence either.
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Old Tuesday, June 26th, 2007, 05:23 PM
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Default Re: Crime In Aruba

you know people, several months ago i posted telling everyone that we at visit aruba are trying to work with the police to prevent crime. we had asked people to pm me with any problems that happened while they were there. in the next two months i got 3 responses.

as we all agree, aruba is and will suffer growing pains. if our connection at the police department is still willing to work with us, and i am sure he is, we might be able to help by pointing out what areas and problems need to be addressed. so please write to me. i am here to help. i leave in 45 days and can be the bearer of information but not if no one takes 5 minutes out of their week to write to me.
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Old Tuesday, June 26th, 2007, 05:51 PM
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Default Re: Crime In Aruba

Quote:
Originally Posted by sherry View Post
you know people, several months ago i posted telling everyone that we at visit aruba are trying to work with the police to prevent crime. we had asked people to pm me with any problems that happened while they were there. in the next two months i got 3 responses.

as we all agree, aruba is and will suffer growing pains. if our connection at the police department is still willing to work with us, and i am sure he is, we might be able to help by pointing out what areas and problems need to be addressed. so please write to me. i am here to help. i leave in 45 days and can be the bearer of information but not if no one takes 5 minutes out of their week to write to me.
You sure did make that request. Here it is:

Quote:
Originally Posted by sherry
hi everyone,

we have a bit of a problem that needs your help. as we all know, petty crime has been on the increase in aruba. we can do something about this but not without your help.

the obvious help is protect your belongings. don't be foolish tourists and leave items for other tourists and local criminals to take. remember, although aruba is safer than just about anywhere in our own country, petty crime does exist.

then there is the less obvious help. as requested by the powers that be, we are compiling a list of any crimes that you have witnessed or been the victims of. I don't mean the stupid kid trying to sell you a joint. I mean vandalism, petty theft, and any categories I am missing that have occurred since the first of this year. we want as many details as you remember. location, action, were police called, did they respond in a timely manner, and anything else that you can think of.

We are working closely with the authorities to maintain a safe Aruba as it has always been and continues to be relative to most places. We can be that much more effective at this with your feedback! We would like you to send an email to us with the aforementioned details. if you are uncomfortable sending it to people you don't know, you are welcome to pm me.

i will sticky this post and close this thread so that all replies can be sent to us.

thanks!!!!
It is still a sticky on the front page of this forum.

This does not mean that "it's all your fault for not reporting these problems to sherry sooner." But it does mean that people that can make a difference are aware of a growing problem and want our help.
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Old Tuesday, June 26th, 2007, 05:59 PM
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Default Re: Crime In Aruba

thank you charlie, i deleted so many sticky threads yesterday when i was setting up our rules section but i left that one intentionally. now i am amending it to say: please pm me. i will try to personally hand it to the right people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by charlierat View Post
You sure did make that request. Here it is:


It is still a sticky on the front page of this forum.

This does not mean that "it's all your fault for not reporting these problems to sherry sooner." But it does mean that people that can make a difference are aware of a growing problem and want our help.
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Old Tuesday, June 26th, 2007, 06:56 PM
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Default Re: Crime In Aruba

Well, I was one of three that did PM you the year before, but I didn't this time cause to tell you the truth, I never thought of it. Sorry!
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Old Tuesday, June 26th, 2007, 07:09 PM
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Default Re: Crime In Aruba

yes you were chris and you are forgiven for not remembering twice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisnwillie View Post
Well, I was one of three that did PM you the year before, but I didn't this time cause to tell you the truth, I never thought of it. Sorry!
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Old Tuesday, June 26th, 2007, 07:18 PM
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Default Re: Crime In Aruba

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisnwillie View Post
Well, I was one of three that did PM you the year before, but I didn't this time cause to tell you the truth, I never thought of it. Sorry!
Plus, it was never a rule; it was just a request. I'm really sorry (and shocked) that you had to experience what you did but thank you for bringing it to our attention.
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Old Tuesday, June 26th, 2007, 08:10 PM
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Default Re: Crime In Aruba

From what I've read here and elsewhere, it seems that a lot of the trouble is being caused in and around the Riu construction. Is it because workers there are non-Aruban? I don't quite understand what has happened to cause security problems, other than a tremendous amount of expansion that is happening much too quickly. We'll be there next week and we certainly hope NOT to witness any wrongdoing, for the island's sake!
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Old Wednesday, June 27th, 2007, 08:03 AM
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Wink Re: Crime In Aruba

Nearly all the construction workers at the RUI are from S. America. Arubans have been plagued with this problem everytime a big project comes along like the RUI...Arubans will not work for peanuts in the hot sun, hence the foreign workers who come from extremely impoverished countries and crime always goes up a bit till the job is done and they leave....or most of them leave....cause unlike the USA Aruba has a very busy Immigration Dept and actively seeks out illegals.......having worked US Immigration in Aruba at the airport and saw weekly people being brought to the airport to be flown home as they were there illegally I couldn't help but wish the USA took illegals as seriously as Aruba does (but that's a whole nother story).......anyways, with all the planned building going on in Aruba this will probably continue to be a problem......sad, that Aruba is so gung ho on this mega building explosion.....I suspect eventually it will affect how I feel about the island and how often I go.......
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Old Wednesday, June 27th, 2007, 08:52 AM
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Default Re: Crime In Aruba

Quote:
Originally Posted by seashelldiver View Post
Nearly all the construction workers at the RUI are from S. America. .......

I know some are from the Dominic Republic and are being paid very little.

On days off some are working, under the supervision of Crew Leaders who get paid, for drinks and food.
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Old Wednesday, June 27th, 2007, 02:50 PM
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Default Re: Crime In Aruba

Charles,
I live in Philadelphia, just recorded our 200th murder last night. However, I live in a part of the City with much less of a crime problem, partly due to Town Watch activities. I happen to be on the Advisory Board for Town Watch for the City of Philadelphia. We function as the eyes and ears of the police department. We are not vigilanties. Only report crime. We have over 18,000 volunteer members in the City. Each member may only devote a few hours a month, but with 18,000+ members that's a lot of eyes and ears. Maybe the permanent residents of Aruba would be able to set up something similar. I am also sure many on this BB would lend a hand while in Aruba. Criminals especially youth just out looking for trouble do not want to be watched, thus Town Watch is effective. Would be anxious to discuss further on this BB or in person when in Aruba 11/14 to 11/28.
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Old Wednesday, June 27th, 2007, 03:01 PM
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Default Re: Crime In Aruba

philly, what an excellent idea. i guess our neighborhood watch is something like that. i have seen it as a very effective tool but unlike you didn't relate it's use to aruba (shame on me). our webmasters are checking this thread at my suggestion and i will make sure to point this out to them. obviously, the majority of work would need to be done by residents of aruba but watchful eyes, especially those of us tourists with owned or rented phones can be great eyes for the authorities. i would hope my visitors would call the cops if they saw something happening in my neighborhood.

thank you so much for the idea. it may be what we need.

btw, we aren't far behind you in baltimore. we have a much smaller populatation and are at 150 or more for the year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyboater View Post
Charles,
I live in Philadelphia, just recorded our 200th murder last night. However, I live in a part of the City with much less of a crime problem, partly due to Town Watch activities. I happen to be on the Advisory Board for Town Watch for the City of Philadelphia. We function as the eyes and ears of the police department. We are not vigilanties. Only report crime. We have over 18,000 volunteer members in the City. Each member may only devote a few hours a month, but with 18,000+ members that's a lot of eyes and ears. Maybe the permanent residents of Aruba would be able to set up something similar. I am also sure many on this BB would lend a hand while in Aruba. Criminals especially youth just out looking for trouble do not want to be watched, thus Town Watch is effective. Would be anxious to discuss further on this BB or in person when in Aruba 11/14 to 11/28.
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Old Wednesday, June 27th, 2007, 03:12 PM
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Default Re: Crime In Aruba

Sherry,
Had a group from Baltimore at our Anti Crime Conference on June 2nd. They attend every year. Willing to help as much as possible to set up something in Aruba. We would like to continue to vist Aruba as often as possible and though crime is much less than in US, would like to see it as it was on our first visit in 1987. Almost no crime.
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Old Thursday, June 28th, 2007, 01:09 PM
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Default Re: Crime In Aruba

Looks like we can thank some of our fellow Americans for some trouble in Aruba. http://www.aruba-bb.com/viewtopic.php?t=46520
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Old Thursday, June 28th, 2007, 01:14 PM
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Wink Re: Crime In Aruba

I'd love to read the article, but I do not go to the Aruba BB for any reason......can't stand the atmosphere in there.....rude rude rude !!!

Could you cut and paste the article from whatever paper it came out of for us.......
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Old Thursday, June 28th, 2007, 02:33 PM
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Default Re: Crime In Aruba

Eddy wrote this in the Tradewinds Times.

Damage At Chasers Cafe, One Person Seriously Injured


June 28th 2007, Aruba.



Police restored order at Chasers Cafe

ORANJESTAD-What suppose to be a nice bar hopping night on board the Chiva Paranda bus, ended in a big physical fight among a group of American tourists at Chasers Cafe last Tuesday.

At the cafe there was a dispute between two Americans that resulted in a physical fight, more tourists that were part of the group joined in. A number of police officers immediately arrived at the scene to restore order.

One of the persons involved received a serious injury to the head and
had to be transported to the hospital. Police detained an American who was involved in the fight at the cafe. The cause of the big fight is still not clear.

The interior of Chasers Cafe suffered much damage. It is not known
whether the owner will have those involved in the fight pay for the
damages.

Chasers Cafe is one of the popular stops for the bar hopping
tour on board the Chiva Paranda bus. The cafe is located on the Adriaan Lacle Boulevard in Oranjestad.



Inside Chasers Cafe after the fight


Images courtesy of 24ora.
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Old Thursday, June 28th, 2007, 02:36 PM
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Default Re: Crime In Aruba

thank you love! a few drinks in anyone from any country and the fists and mouths become dangerous. looks like it was the americans turn to be stupid.
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Old Thursday, June 28th, 2007, 02:45 PM
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Cool Re: Crime In Aruba

LovesAruba......thanks for posting the context of the article.....Sherry, so true !
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Old Thursday, June 28th, 2007, 03:16 PM
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Default Re: Crime In Aruba

Amazing that this doesn't happen more often when you mix booze and testosterone cocktails,well shaken on a Party Bus!
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Old Thursday, June 28th, 2007, 10:09 PM
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Default Re: Crime In Aruba

If you can't hold your liquor don't drink.
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Old Thursday, July 5th, 2007, 10:51 AM
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Default Re: Crime In Aruba

In genreal it does sort of sound like crime is somewhat on the rise in Aruba over the last year or two. It may just be that more stuff is being reported publicly now though, its hard to say.
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Old Saturday, January 30th, 2010, 10:18 PM
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Default Re: Crime In Aruba

I noticed most of the posts were old so Im sure the crime rate has been growing. Coming from a law enforcement background I can see that Aruba is a prime location for drug traffickers and human traffickers. The police are slow to respond because they dont want to affect tourist dollars. If Aruba is building they have money so the police force should be larger and the technology should be made available to find people like Natalee Holloway. Unfortunately the level of corruption unseen by tourists is undoubtedly flourishing and the petty crimes will probably continue because of the lack of fear by the criminals of the police. The drug traffickers always tend to keep a low profile because they dont want to be noticed so they can continue to thrive. If students from the US want to go to Aruba they need to be very careful of their surroundings and dont trust the locals who know what they are doing and know how to make people disappear.
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Old Saturday, January 30th, 2010, 10:41 PM
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Default Re: Crime In Aruba

ok, i am going to take this opportunity to explain a few things. first of all, you may be from a law enforcement background but you are a bit off base. second, you state you have never even been to aruba which gives you no opportunity to have any knowledge.

i personally have had some opportunity after a burglary to deal with the 'locals'. i can tell you that they took the time to investigate. they took fingerprints and palm prints. they even found a drop of blood that no one else saw. 6 months later my home in baltimore was burglarized. they didn't bother to do a damned thing. they barely did a police report.

as to the natalee situation. they did so much more (i was involved personally with some of it) than my community does in the states. there were more searches, more people involved in searching, and more help called in than my community ever has thought of using. the island was given a bad reputation after busting butts to try to find natalee.

now, every thing you have stated is exactly the same in yorba california, isn't it? there is construction so there is corruption, petty crime, major crime, murder, drugs, and teens on vacation that unfortunately go missing.

aruba is not a third world country. they have the same technology you have in california. they have as good or a better educational system. they have more than two major political parties and most of their country actually takes the time to get involved and vote, unlike our country. they have socialized medicine and better protection for employees than any of us have.

they also have a prison that actually treats prisoners like they did something wrong. it's hot, and miserable and they don't get dessert.

so, maybe you need to travel to aruba and get an education.

btw, i am not usually this rude but when people come to this forum, and their first comment is in the safety section with a generalization that is insulting rather than asking questions i get suspicious of motivation.

so stay around and learn about aruba. it's sure a lot better than you seem to think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldoutlaw View Post
I noticed most of the posts were old so Im sure the crime rate has been growing. Coming from a law enforcement background I can see that Aruba is a prime location for drug traffickers and human traffickers. The police are slow to respond because they dont want to affect tourist dollars. If Aruba is building they have money so the police force should be larger and the technology should be made available to find people like Natalee Holloway. Unfortunately the level of corruption unseen by tourists is undoubtedly flourishing and the petty crimes will probably continue because of the lack of fear by the criminals of the police. The drug traffickers always tend to keep a low profile because they dont want to be noticed so they can continue to thrive. If students from the US want to go to Aruba they need to be very careful of their surroundings and dont trust the locals who know what they are doing and know how to make people disappear.
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Old Saturday, January 30th, 2010, 11:32 PM
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I Love Aruba Re: Crime In Aruba

Well said, Sherry!
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Old Sunday, January 31st, 2010, 02:01 AM
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Default Re: Crime In Aruba

You say it well, Sherry. I also think that perhaps a mention of the efforts of the new Govt in policing and crime prevention should also be highlighted. Our new member should look at some of the other Caribbean islands and compare Aruba after that analysis.
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Old Sunday, January 31st, 2010, 03:01 AM
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Default Re: Crime In Aruba

I find it interesting that because I havent been to Aruba that I have no knowledge to make comments. I dont just go on sites and make comments without having an understanding of what goes on not only on Aruba but on other Caribbean islands. You seem to defend the actions of the local police by doing crime scene investigation which is what police are supposed to do regardless of jurisdiction. Aruba also seems to be a well financed police agency which most in the states dont and on a cold call like a burg if they dont have intell they are not required to do anything beyond a report. If the police are so diligent in investigating crimes they why did they stall and stonewall Natalee's family and question the boys and release them? I dont know where yorba california is unless you mean Yorba Linda or maybe somewhere else but we dont have people go missing there nor anywhere else in Orange County. I know Aruba is not a third world country its got construction projects and hotels/casinos and so forth. I have met and talked to cops from florida, ny, chicago who have all been to Aruba and they can tell there is alot of crime there and they have seen it. I see the geography of the island to others and its obvious that things happen that havent gotten press. I noticed that the crime rate has risen and until the police target the problems nothing will change.
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Old Sunday, January 31st, 2010, 07:54 AM
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Default Re: Crime In Aruba

Carlos n Charlies has been closed for some time now.
That place was just a 'problem waiting to happen'.

With the new government we have seen more arrests
and discussion of these issues than we have in a long
time.

I believe that w/ the new programs going on and
the new attitudes here that crime is going down.
Criminals are should be starting to catch on that
it's not 'business as usual'. They are arresting
people for a variety of things - thefts, credit
card scams, cat rings - and the punishments
here are not 'soft'. They are looking at the
'rings' of criminals and actually following them
to the 'big guys' not just the stooges.
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Old Sunday, January 31st, 2010, 08:32 AM
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Default Re: Crime In Aruba

I agree with Sherry and Liz completely. Yes there was a rash of petty crime several years ago. Yes there was an uproar when Natalie Holloway dissappeared.

First, the Holloway incident as tragic as it is is an isolated situation. It received world attention due to today's media. Not sure where you are from, but I am quite sure that crime is much higher in your Community than it is in Aruba. All types of crime.

Much has been done in the past several years to deal with this petty crime, and it appears to have been successful. As you posted, most of the posts are OLD. Also as Liz has said, the new government is doing even more to combat crime.

If you indeed have a law enforcement background, you should gather all the facts before making a derogatory post of this sort. Plus, you say you have never been to Aruba. I can assure you Aruba is safer than your community and the Aruban people are much friendlier than most of your neighbors.

I apologize to the Board for this post being a little nasty, but Aruba bashing by a new member, who has only a little information and has never been to Aruba just hit a nerve.
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Old Sunday, January 31st, 2010, 08:33 AM
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Default Re: Crime In Aruba

i am sorry people, i am breaking my own rules here but i made the rules so i will break them for the first time in 5.5 years. will put it bluntly. this person, whomever he is, has come to this site to 'stir s-h-i-t'. articulate speech is easy for any of us. speaking off the top of our heads or out of other spots is also easy for us. this person has no interest in aruba. i am assuming he is from a specific website that decided several years ago to tear down aruba and ruin it. they almost succeeded and each time they see that aruba survives it angers them.

the responses you have read most recently old outlaw are from two people with homes on aruba. one is canadian and the other a citizen of the united states. if anyone would complain and have the opportunity to make comparisons it would be them. they also freely do complain on this forum when they feel it is justified. i personally work with those 'locals' you talk about with some disdain.

for the record, what i was trying to explain and you tried to twist concerning police response is that the police on aruba do their jobs. the police in my state have not in at least three cases that i was part of, two of which affected me personally and one that affected an employee.

so get real, no society is perfect. the crime rate in aruba has increased as has that here in the states and everywhere else in the world. it is a sign of the times. to come to a forum for travel on an island you haven't been to with the sole purpose of reopening a 2+ year old thread just to talk crime is a clue to who you are.

our members will honestly say i have never shied away from even the worst of threads and insults to aruba that were supported by facts and by people who know the island as visitors, residents, or citizens. this forum was the only one of the aruba tourism sites that allowed several thousand posts about natalee holloway. however, we are tired of what you bring to us. you have brought supposition, rumor and guesswork. you have not brought fact or reality.

don't waste your time on a site filled with decent people who tell it like it is from knowledge gained by being there. go to another island site where the police force actually does look the other way instead of trying to improve their island. but wherever you go to post, visit the place before you insult it. know what you are talking about. i tired of people long ago that speak for the sake of ruining reputations and insulting people with nothing of real value to add to humanity.

and now sir, you are being banned.
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Old Sunday, January 31st, 2010, 08:55 AM
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Default Re: Crime In Aruba

An obvious fact that is often not taken into consideration is that Aruba is governed under Dutch law. Many powers and rights that exist for the police in North America are not there under this Dutch law. Having dealt with the police in Aruba on some minor property matters, I have personally experienced these differences. It would be very helpful if someone knowledgeable in both Dutch and NA law could produce and post a summary of these differences. I think certain tourists who take things for granted and act somewhat recklessly may be less inclined to do so when they realize that an arrest means into jail until they can get to court.

I think that "oldoutlaw" needs to educate himself if in fact he is credible
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Old Sunday, January 31st, 2010, 10:16 AM
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Default Re: Crime In Aruba

Quote:
Originally Posted by aquaman View Post
An obvious fact that is often not taken into consideration is that Aruba is governed under Dutch law. Many powers and rights that exist for the police in North America are not there under this Dutch law. Having dealt with the police in Aruba on some minor property matters, I have personally experienced these differences. It would be very helpful if someone knowledgeable in both Dutch and NA law could produce and post a summary of these differences. I think certain tourists who take things for granted and act somewhat recklessly may be less inclined to do so when they realize that an arrest means into jail until they can get to court.

I think that "oldoutlaw" needs to educate himself if in fact he is credible
I think I have some reasonable knowledge of the Dutch Law (and Aruban), but am not sure what kind of legal information/ differences you are looking for. Perhaps if you ask the questions I can answer them.
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Old Sunday, January 31st, 2010, 02:57 PM
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Default Re: Crime In Aruba

Sandra,
I think I understand the question of Aquaman. I too noticed differences when following the news media some 2 1/2 years ago. Then again not sure the media coverage was accurate. By the way I am not questioning if Dutch law is better or worse than the US. I know the US criminal justice system could use some help. Just seems to me there are subtle differences.

For instance. In US a person is arrested and charged with a crime. He then has a preliminary hearing to determine if there is enough evidence to take the case to trail. His attorney files motions for various reasons. Depending on the offense the person arrested may be granted bail and will be expected to show up for his trail. If convicted he may be released pending sentencing or may be kept in prison.

Not sure any of us non-lawyers could really explain these subtle differences.
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Old Sunday, January 31st, 2010, 04:22 PM
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Default Re: Crime In Aruba

Bravo Sherry. My mouth was hanging on the floor at oldoutlaw and his rantings of ignorance. Sorry if that's harsh, but wow did he get my back up on this. I too have had to deal with Aruban law enforcement a couple of times over the past 15 or so years for car vandalism, etc., (and truly it's few and far between). They have been nothing but diligent and very committed to their jobs. They always followed through to the best of their ability, even taking time to call us back to see how we were doing, etc. Here where I live, although thankfully again it's few and far between for me personally, the police seem to think that filing a report is the end of their job! Oldoutlaw, you're WAY off base here.
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Old Sunday, January 31st, 2010, 04:49 PM
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I Love Aruba Re: Crime In Aruba

We really dislike getting involved with 'political' discussions. But....to observe the law in Aruba from a distance is tantamount to a doctor saying that the practice of medicine in Aruba is archaic because he has spoken with other doctors about it. Aruba is an independent country; their laws may not be as stringent as they are in other parts of the world. The tragic Natalee Holloway episode was, fortunately, an abberation, not something that happens every day, month, year, etc. Its ok to make observations; lets make them fairly!!
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Old Sunday, January 31st, 2010, 05:12 PM
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Default Re: Crime In Aruba

Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyboater View Post
Sandra,
I think I understand the question of Aquaman. I too noticed differences when following the news media some 2 1/2 years ago. Then again not sure the media coverage was accurate. By the way I am not questioning if Dutch law is better or worse than the US. I know the US criminal justice system could use some help. Just seems to me there are subtle differences.

For instance. In US a person is arrested and charged with a crime. He then has a preliminary hearing to determine if there is enough evidence to take the case to trail. His attorney files motions for various reasons. Depending on the offense the person arrested may be granted bail and will be expected to show up for his trail. If convicted he may be released pending sentencing or may be kept in prison.

Not sure any of us non-lawyers could really explain these subtle differences.
Thank you phillyboater. I think you get it. Not to be argumentative but some of the differences are not so subtle. My concern is that many people visit Aruba without any idea of how different the law can be and by assuming this they can end up in a bad situation. I have suggested to Sherry our moderator that maybe a FACT sheet posted here on some of the basic differences may be of assistance in the event one of the forum members was to run up against a legal situation...a car accident etc. In fact Sherry has communicated with knowledgable resources and hopefully something may come of this.

Some not so subtle items. The presumption of innocence. Innocent until proven guilty vs. Guilty until proven innocent

I think we all take for granted the law as we know it in our home enviroment. What I am hoping is that we can identify a few key major differences so all can understand some of these.

By the way, this is by no means a criticsm of how the Police or laws of Aruba work. Instead I hope it just creates an awareness of the differences.
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Old Sunday, January 31st, 2010, 05:15 PM
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Default Re: Crime In Aruba

I think a discussion about the differences b/w the law would
be as large as a book. You could compare the US law to
British law. What would that exactly accomplish unless
you:
1. Want to feel the troll
2. Have a specific situation you would like answered.

Hell - I don't even know all the laws in the US.

I salute Sherry and others who feel the same way as I do.
Let's not continue this discussion as it is only 'fodder'
for these fools with nothing better to do with their time.

Life is short. Get over it!!!
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Old Sunday, January 31st, 2010, 07:27 PM
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One Happy Island Re: Crime In Aruba

Amen!!!

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Old Sunday, January 31st, 2010, 10:42 PM
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Default Re: Crime In Aruba

actually liz, i don't feel that way. we have a responsibility to our tourist members to help to protect or warn them if we can. this is a responsibility of any travel forum. we all go ignorant into travel. we don't know the laws of the land and assume everyone follows the same rules as we do. if we can get the information on basics such as drunk driving, drug laws, treatment if caught doing something illegal, legal rights compared to those in the states, and other assorted general info, we are doing a great service. it's my job as a moderator and a human being to inform the members. if i don't do keep them abreast and they do something in ignorance assuming it is no big deal and wind up in jail, i am wrong. passing on knowledge is one of the greatest privileges we can have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lizzardo View Post
I think a discussion about the differences b/w the law would
be as large as a book. You could compare the US law to
British law. What would that exactly accomplish unless
you:
1. Want to feel the troll
2. Have a specific situation you would like answered.

Hell - I don't even know all the laws in the US.

I salute Sherry and others who feel the same way as I do.
Let's not continue this discussion as it is only 'fodder'
for these fools with nothing better to do with their time.

Life is short. Get over it!!!
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Old Sunday, January 31st, 2010, 11:40 PM
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Default Re: Crime In Aruba

Old outlaw is a mall cop from backwardville. Sorry had to make a comment.
Sherry, you right.. He's someone who has read the crap on the internet and thinks he knows everything about Aruba and the crime there.
Well, I AM 30 yrs retired from the job and stay 3 weeks every year along with 2-4 others law enforcement collegues from time to time.
Yes , we have noticed the increase in petty crimes on the island but WE, have no first hand knowledge of any crimes to anyone we know or at any of the resorts we stay at.
I do believe, seeing that he went right to the Hollaway situation that he is someone just here to stir up crap. were some mistakes made, I think so, but not knowing any of the particulars of the investigation, I can't comment on their procedure taken or not taken. NO ONE CAN.
IT'S OBVIOUS THAT OLD OUTLAW IS JUST THAT.. OLD!

aruba 4/20--5/8
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Old Monday, February 1st, 2010, 08:11 AM
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Default Re: Crime In Aruba

Sherry - no disrespect - i'm just saying that there are
'universal laws' that no one should break - drunk driving,
drug possession and murder.

If I were arrested in any country for something 'bad' - the thing I would do is get a lawyer who could tell me what to do. Every arrest is
different so it would be hard to say 'this is the law' every time.

Since most people on the boards are law abiding people, I was
just saying that posting about specific (more common) situations
is easier than just explaining the entire legal system. It's not
an easy road to navigate the law here. Yes, Aruba does have
some dutch laws but not all. For example, carrying weed,
gay marriages and assisted 'suicides' for terminal cases are not
on the books but legal is holland. They don't have many animal right laws here.

It's almost like federal verse state laws in the US and sometimes
the question comes up which one is used.

Yes we should educate people on the laws here. I'm just concerned that if you say ' this is handled this way' if it's that way in every case.

Also - tourists in general are treated differently here compared to
other groups. The government is more likely to 'let it go' unless it's something really serious. They know they depend on the tourist industry and don't need any bad press.

I hope I didn't offend any one but just trying not to scare anyone here.
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Old Monday, February 1st, 2010, 08:34 AM
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Default Re: Crime In Aruba

i agree in many ways liz. but we need to remind people of things like being jailed without bail if caught doing something illegal. we don't want a book of laws here but there are specifics that affect tourists such as the drunk driving laws. they need to know these things. if i was a recreational drug user, i certainly would want to know the laws and how they differ from where i live because i would not want to spend my vacation in kia. weapon laws are another thing to be concerned with. i can give a list of the basics and we need to inform people of them. it doesn't stir problems and may save some foolish tourists from learning the hard way.

getting a lawyer after arrest is a great idea that i totally agree with but if by having a listing of basic laws we can keep it from getting that far, we have helped a lot of people visit the island and show it respect while enjoying themselves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lizzardo View Post
Sherry - no disrespect - i'm just saying that there are
'universal laws' that no one should break - drunk driving,
drug possession and murder.

If I were arrested in any country for something 'bad' - the thing I would do is get a lawyer who could tell me what to do. Every arrest is
different so it would be hard to say 'this is the law' every time.

Since most people on the boards are law abiding people, I was
just saying that posting about specific (more common) situations
is easier than just explaining the entire legal system. It's not
an easy road to navigate the law here. Yes, Aruba does have
some dutch laws but not all. For example, carrying weed,
gay marriages and assisted 'suicides' for terminal cases are not
on the books but legal is holland. They don't have many animal right laws here.

It's almost like federal verse state laws in the US and sometimes
the question comes up which one is used.

Yes we should educate people on the laws here. I'm just concerned that if you say ' this is handled this way' if it's that way in every case.

Also - tourists in general are treated differently here compared to
other groups. The government is more likely to 'let it go' unless it's something really serious. They know they depend on the tourist industry and don't need any bad press.

I hope I didn't offend any one but just trying not to scare anyone here.
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Old Monday, February 1st, 2010, 09:34 AM
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Default Re: Crime In Aruba

Quote:
Originally Posted by lizzardo View Post
I think a discussion about the differences b/w the law would
be as large as a book. You could compare the US law to
British law. What would that exactly accomplish unless
you:
1. Want to feel the troll
2. Have a specific situation you would like answered.
LIZ: I don't want to sound ignorant, but, what do you mean by: "Want to feel the troll"????
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Old Monday, February 1st, 2010, 09:39 AM
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Default Re: Crime In Aruba

According to Wiki this is a definition of a troll:

In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response[1] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[2]

"Feeding the Troll" refers to responding to a poster which is what the troll wants to do so they can 'stir things up' or enable him to post more and keep the 'ball rolling'.
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