one of our members asked what we would like to see change on american based flights. it got him and I thinking about the situation. we have created a survey that if answered by enough people could be sent on the the right parties. so get your friends to vote also. email or post the link to anyone you know that travels any travel board no matter what city or country it deals with. remind them that they must register on our board but will not be hounded or solicited to by any member or the webmasters.

the rules of the survey...
1-you have more than once choice so pick wisely and pick something in each category.
2-you get only one time to vote. our board only allows you one opportunity so make all choices the first time around.
3-remember that we are not dealing with the safety issue here. obviously that is the most important item when flying but it isn't an area that should even be open to discussion. either it is safe or it isn't.

one more thing: please take a few minutes to explain your choices if you can. it will help make the point.

__________________
help us help aruba's kittens and cats

http://www.arubakitten.org/



vote now!!!!

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/N...uba/index.html

With the unstablility of the airline industry due to sky high oil prices, (Delta just posted a $6.39 billion 1st Qtr. loss), imo it is not realistic to expect lower pricing or more services. To be treated with respect by personnel is naturally expected in any industry.

__________________
Lisa
Aruba Bound!
www.hoosierkitties.com ~ www.bloggingtoaruba.com ~ www.our-cruises.com

I would gladly pay more to be treated with respect and have a decent meal.

__________________

IMHO -we all over pay all of the airlines now, no matter where we are flying to. I will bring my own snacks and a bottle of water I purchase after going through customs in both the US and AUA. If we get to our airports early enough we should have time to grab a meal before we board our plane. I think the airline personnel do need some lessons on how to treat us better, but I'm not willing to pay more for that. Have had a couple of bad encounters myself and have complained but to no avail. Some people are just born "snutty". It is also my own opinion here, but I really put Flight Attendants in the "waiter, waitress" category. Only difference is, they don't get tips, and most waiter and waitresses are "pleasant".

I am glad that in the poll we could choose mulitple choices I put 3 check marks in it as I had 3 answers.

On the question of flying US airliners I will fly them only in the United States and since I am a freq flyer with one US airliner and they fly to the destinations here in the US that I want to go to and they fly to Aruba I will only fly them here.

When I fly to Europe or Asia I will not fly ANY US Airliners. I will fly either that countries airliner or I will fly a good Airline that flies to that Destination. But it won't be a US Airline carrier.

Now as for paying more for getting the latest info or for making the airline service reps more respectful or nice or even treat customers with more respect. I don't believe paying for something that should automatically be there when I do business with any company.

Hell I know people are people and we all have bad days In some aspects I feel bad for some of them. A lot of those lower members of that airlines workforce have given back a lot of their money and benefits to try to keep their jobs and the airline afloat.

__________________
Born to raise Hell and enjoy every minute of it. Hawklords

I'm willing to forgo snacks, drinks, blankets, movies, etc. if it means keeping the airfare down. I can deal with all of those things without the airlines' assistance.

I also agree with the others that I'm not about to pay more to be treated better by airline/airport personnel. I'm not the kind of person that demands or expects a lot, and personally I've been pretty satisfied with most of the service I've received. A certain amount of professionalism is all I require. Let me sit in peace and get me (and my bags!) to my destination as promptly as possible and I'll be happy.

For those people willing to pay more, the question then becomes how much more, because you can already buy your way into more amenities by purchasing first-class tickets. Can't say you'll necessarily get better service, and you'll suffer the same delays as everyone else on the plane, but I bet you'll be more comfortable!

__________________
Chip
Aruba - March 2008 Gallery

I find it hard to believe that American based airlines are not making money. Airlines based in other countries are doing ok. I believe this is another attempt to restructure companies to improve their bottom lines. Airline employees have takes pay cuts and layoffs. Planes sit on the ground with federal airworthiness directives not accomplished. Maintainence standards are not being enforced. I don't fault any pilot that doesn't want to fly if he feels something is not right. In case of accident, the FAA will go to the scene in their own aircraft. They do not fly commercial airlines.

As for service while on board, it is hard to maintain a pleasant demeanor when your corporate policy has dictated that you hand out a bag of pretzels while the sardine can you are flying in is sitting on the tarmac for an extra hour for some unknown reason.

American which has almost a monopoly on carribean destinations wants to change plane sizes and capacities. I believe it is an effort to show their stockholders that they are losing money. Dump the unions, dump the older pilots and personnel, cut pensions, screw the public, they are only our customers. Depress the stock, buy it up, and re-organize. That's how business works in America.

Actually, other than Asian carriers, overseas airlines aren't faring much better than their American counterparts: IATA Cuts 2008 Airline Industry Profit Forecast Again

Source or just speculation?

__________________
Chip
Aruba - March 2008 Gallery

Delta, Northwest lose combined $10.5B on high fuel, charges

By HARRY R. WEBER, AP Business Writer 2 hours, 41 minutes ago

ATLANTA - Delta and Northwest, seeking to combine to create the world's largest airline, posted losses Wednesday totaling $10.5 billion for the first three months of the year due to exorbitant fuel prices and write-downs of their companies' value.
Southwest's chief executive, meanwhile, indicated that the carrier wasn't interested in a merger and said the very thought of it was daunting.
The figures from Delta and Northwest follow large losses at other carriers, such as United Airlines parent UAL Corp., which earlier this week reported a $537 million first-quarter loss on higher fuel costs, and likely rank among the industry's largest quarterly losses ever.
That red ink puts into focus the enormity of the challenge the industry faces to become profitable again amid $120-a-barrel oil — even with the benefits that consolidation can bring.
"All airlines are in the same boat," said Calyon Securities analyst Ray Neidl. "The industry cannot make money at the current ticket fare levels. Seats have to come out of the market. To cover higher fuel costs, air fares have to go up."
Atlanta-based Delta Air Lines Inc., the nation's third-largest carrier, said its loss widened in the first quarter to a whopping $6.39 billion. A few hours later, Eagan, Minn.-based Northwest Airlines Corp. reported a $4.1 billion loss for the period.
Delta's results badly missed Wall Street expectations, despite a 12 percent increase in sales.
Excluding special items — primarily a $6.1 billion non-cash charge relating to the drop in Delta's market value due to sustained record fuel prices — the airline lost $274 million in the first quarter. A spokeswoman said Delta would have recorded the charge regardless of the tie-up with Northwest.
Northwest took a $3.9 billion charge of its own related to its market value decline. Its loss came despite a 9 percent increase in sales, and Northwest, too, missed analysts' earnings expectations.
Excluding the accounting charge and losses from some fuel hedges, Northwest said it would have lost $191 million in the quarter.
In a memo to Delta employees Wednesday, Ed Bastian, Delta's president and chief financial officer, said the airline expects some of its peers to record similar accounting adjustments.
John Heimlich, chief economist for the Air Transport Association, said the industry is now likely to report a "multibillion loss" this year.
"When all the results are in, this will be one of the worst quarters for the industry in its history," he said.
The airline industry's biggest annual loss came in 2002, in the wake of the Sept. 11 attacks, when carriers reported a combined loss of $11 billion, according to the ATA.
More recently, airlines have been hampered by the steep rise in fuel prices. Delta recorded a $585 million year-over-year increase in the cost of fuel in the first quarter, while Northwest's fuel costs increased $445 million from a year earlier.
When it emerged from Chapter 11 protection a year ago, Delta projected its stock would be worth $9.4 billion to $12 billion in all, but that was assuming crude oil would cost $70 per barrel. Delta's current market value is roughly $2.6 billion.
The company announced last week that it would acquire Northwest in a stock-swap deal, which still must be approved by regulators and shareholders.
During an appearance in Boston on Wednesday, Southwest Airlines Co. Chief Executive Gary Kelly cited industry pressures as he suggested that a merger isn't appealing right now to the Dallas-based carrier.
"My own view is that with the current fuel outlook that we have and the near-term economic outlook, the thought of acquiring another airline is just daunting because of the complexity involved and the investment that's going to have to take place up front," Kelly said.
Against that backdrop, as well as labor integration issues and the length of time it will take to get the full cost savings expected, Kelly questioned the merits of the Delta-Northwest combination.
"The implication of the combinations are pretty dire as to whether or not they'll actually be successful," Kelly said.
Delta and Northwest have been trying to sell their deal to the public, employees, federal regulators and Wall Street. Delta executives said Wednesday they believe the deal will help create long-term value for shareholders. So far, investors appear unconvinced.
The stock declines since the deal was announced have shaved roughly $1.4 billion off the value of the deal to Northwest shareholders. The initial value was $3.6 billion.
The carriers have not committed to cut a specific number of U.S. flights beyond what they have disclosed separately. Analysts say that limits the cost savings or higher fares the airlines could reap from the deal.
Delta and Northwest haven't ruled out further capacity cuts in the future. Delta is already cutting jobs, and both airlines are grounding some planes.
Northwest has been successful in charging passengers more for international flights. But many of the domestic fare increases attempted by Northwest and other airlines have been rolled back in recent months after one airline or another decided not to match it.
Meanwhile, pilots at Delta and Northwest are looking to resume talks on merging their work forces. The Air Line Pilots Association said negotiators will aim to work out a joint union contract before the two airlines combine. Once that is done, the chairmen of the two unions say they want to negotiate a seniority agreement.
The lack of a seniority agreement is what kept them from making a deal before Delta and Northwest announced plans to join.
Northwest pilots had vowed to kill the tie-up because they were left out of contract talks at the end. They say they still oppose the combination, but that a joint contract with Delta pilots would be a step in the right direction.
Northwest suggested Wednesday that it may lose money for the full year. Bastian said Delta expects to be slightly profitable in the second quarter.
Delta shares fell 24 cents, or 3.5 percent, to close at $6.56 on Wednesday, while Northwest fell 37 cents, or 5 percent, to $7.10. Southwest rose 39 cents, or 3.3 percent, to $12.17.
___
Associated Press Writers Joshua Freed in Minneapolis, Adam Schreck in New York and Jay Lindsay in Boston contributed to this report.



This is why when asked the question about Would you pay more to get airline service personal to be more friendly or get the amenities that they once used to offer I don't see that happening anytime soon.

I am sure that the employees of both companies are looking at those Numbers in red And so our the stockholders and accountants.



If this deal goes thru and the merger happens of course the New Mega airline will not keep all the employees of both companies their will be layoffs and I would dare say they will be in the thousands. so It seems that some airline workers are not going to be in the best mood when they are looking over their shoulder to see if they will have a job tomorrow. Some where that loss has to stop and start turning a profit



And of course the other airlines are looking at major profit losses due to rising oil prices and what this merger will bring and unlike Southwest who is not looking at any mergers now others the regional carriers may be seeing where they can cut losses by a merger and if that happens then they will also have to have reductions in employees and working out New contracts with union workers .



It's one big mess and really there does not seem to be a major answer to solve it. I do know I would not want to be a CEO of a US carrier.

___

__________________
Born to raise Hell and enjoy every minute of it. Hawklords

chip, murray's off at work but i will begin an answer for him. as he said, it is his opinion. i do tend to agree with it. the airlines play games. i intentionally watched the AA flights from and to miami and san juan and checked how crowded they are. my own flight in may is already one passenger short of a full deck as of the other day and so were many others that i checked out. that leads me to believe that there are other reasons for lack of profit or permanent alterations in flight schedules.

think of it this way, what gets you more angry, going to a grocery and having to use coupons that you might forget and searching for the places that double your coupons or going to a grocery that drops all prices by 10% offers some leader sales (sales to convince you to come to them) but doesn't require bonus cards or coupons because their prices are the same to everyone. to me, that store with the coupons is the one that pisses me off. give me a discounted leader sale, keep my costs down without me having to play a game and spending a great deal of time worrying about searching newspapers and magazines for coupons and i run to that store every time.

the airlines now all play that game. the prices change every minute and you need a vacation by the time you finish setting up your flight. it has become similar to the dow jones... you will be sitting next to someone who paid $200 more and $200 less than you on any given flight.

why would it be cheaper for me to fly from baltimore to philly to aruba than to skip the baltimore part and start in philly? that was my scenario last year. if i drove to philly and started the flight there, it was going to cost $150 more than adding on an extra leg.

maybe we need to price things like aruba's cab drivers and base them on distance instead of arbitrary guesswork. the system they have now sure doesn't make any sense and frustrates most of us.

__________________
help us help aruba's kittens and cats

http://www.arubakitten.org/



vote now!!!!

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/N...uba/index.html

Sherry,

Thanks for the reply. I wasn't trying to bait Murray with my reply, though I can see how it may have sounded that way. I really was wondering if he had actual information due to some inside connection, since I usually fly American.

That being said, I do tend to get a bit tired of it always being "big business", "big oil" or "the government" blamed for everything. I understand peoples' need to vent, but it's a cop-out to spout off the same rhetoric instead of investigating the facts. No one here was at all pleased when every other comment was speculation and supposition on the whole NH issue, yet it seems to be tolerated in other instances.

It's just a pet peeve of mine that folks will complain to no end about things on which they are uninformed when it is so easy in this day and age to become more educated on a topic before forming an opinion. I guess I just need to lighten up a little...

Back on topic and to your point about the pricing variances both throughout the industry and even on specific flights. It's a common business model in all industries with fixed costs and limited revenue opportunities. The hotel and cruise industries, for example, sell their "product" (rooms/cabins) using the same sliding scale based on occupancy and availability, both of which are fluid on a daily (and sometimes hourly) basis. (DISCLAIMER: I worked for several years as the front office manager for a large hotel in downtown Boston)

If a flight has an empty seat or a hotel has an empty room they can never make that money back, so they'll price accordingly to make sure that they are full. If they were to set a fixed price per seat they would have to charge an exorbitant amount to hedge their bets against a less than full flight.

There are so many variables that come into play when the airlines set fares for a given flight at a given time. In the example you provided it could be that the PHI>AUA flight was more expensive because it is a more desirable direct flight. (distance notwithstanding) The flight from BWI may have been less than full but needed to get to PHI for logistic reasons, so they dropped the overall fare (BWI>PHI>AUA) to help fill the BWI>PHI leg. So now you have a premium price on the desirable direct flight (PHI>AUA) coupled with an incentivised fare on the less desirable route (BWI>PHI) resulting in what you described...a very perplexing (on the surface) pricing model. This is all speculation on my part of course as there are any number of factors that could have resulted in the odd fares you found. I just came up with this one possibility off the top of my head.

Sorry for being so long-winded and taking this thread off-topic a bit. Sometimes I get just a little too passionate in my arguments.

Must be the Irish in me...

__________________
Chip
Aruba - March 2008 Gallery

I understand what you are saying, Chip. But I agree with Sherry and Murray - I am sick of the online game to order seats. I dont have all day to check the websites. If I want to book early, just give me a decent price.

And I do believe, like Ron and Murray, the bottom line is the stockholders, not employee or customer loyalty.

__________________

Usually booking early does get you a cheaper fare, but it's basically a sliding scale based on supply/demand and costs to operate. The airlines need to average a certain amount of money per seat per airmile flown in order to stay in business. There are only so many low-price fares per flight they can offer before the computers kick in and start ratcheting the price up to get the average per seat revenue to a profitable level.

We're also not discussing hard numbers here. The poll asked would people be willing to pay more for services, but not how much more. Also, what would other folks here consider a "decent" fare from their location to Aruba?

An interesting article on this topic: Say goodbye to cheap flights, maybe peanuts too

I've been saying this for a few weeks now. Welcome to the "Greyhound of the skies".

__________________
Chip
Aruba - March 2008 Gallery

Makes sense! But how can they justify changing the fare online day by day? It goes up and down and up again which is infuriating!

__________________

Don't get frustrated if you can't figure it out...even the boys at MIT gave up trying:

The crazy math of airline ticket pricing

(an old article but interesting nonetheless)

__________________
Chip
Aruba - March 2008 Gallery

Well! That was totally informative! I don't feel so bad now!

__________________

I'm to the point that I don't care who has what attitude, whether they offer me terrible food, or give me one of their unclean pillows or blankets. I just want a decent stable price. When JetBlue finally released their airfares for this past March (which wasn't until mid October), they were appox. $900 a ticket. One month before departure for my date, they were $250 a ticket. That's a lot of bunk as far as I'm concerned.

__________________

NY man sues US airline over flight spent in toilet

8:55PM Tuesday May 13, 2008 NZT


New York man who says he was denied a seat on a five-hour jetBlue flight and was instead told to "hang out" in the plane's bathroom has sued the airline for $2 million, saying he suffered "extreme humiliation".
When Gokhan Mutlu arrived to check in for a jetBlue flight from San Diego to New York in February he was told the flight was full, according to the lawsuit filed in New York State Supreme Court.
But Mutlu was allowed to board after a jetBlue flight attendant agreed to give up her seat and travel in an airline employee "jump seat." It was not clear in the lawsuit whether the flight attendant was working.
But 90 minutes into the flight, the pilot told Mutlu the flight attendant was uncomfortable and he would have to give up his seat and "hang out" in the bathroom for the remainder of the flight, the lawsuit said.
The pilot "became angry at (Mutlu's) reluctance" and said Mutlu "should be grateful for being onboard," the lawsuit said.
When Mutlu volunteered to sit in the "jump seat," he was told it was reserved for airline personnel.


At one point, the airplane experienced turbulence and Mutlu sat on the toilet seat without a seat belt, causing him "tremendous fear," the lawsuit said.

JetBlue was not immediately available for comment.
- REUTERS

aquaman, i saw that on the news this morning and started laughing. how stupid can the airlines be? they had a few hundred witnesses to this behavior. i can picture the list of complaints this guy has. totally disgusting treatment.

__________________
help us help aruba's kittens and cats

http://www.arubakitten.org/



vote now!!!!

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/N...uba/index.html

Sherry,

I wonder if he had any in-flight entertainment ?? Also, was he served snacks and pretzels? Does he get frequent crapper points?

I would think that after sitting for hours on the throne, he can probably now rightly take the title of " King JetBlue".

Is it possible that JetBlue were undertaking market research for a new class they want to introduce in order to live up to the passenger claims of " s**ty service"??

The mind boogles

Aquaman

now that's funny. thanks for the laugh.

__________________
help us help aruba's kittens and cats

http://www.arubakitten.org/



vote now!!!!

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/N...uba/index.html

That is funny and I am a Jetblue True blue member . I will let you know when I take that flight to Las Vegas in Oct if they have me sitting in the Bathroom on the toilet .

Right now when I see my seat assign it is 4A both on the flight there and coming back. It's supposed to be the extra legroom section.

If they do that to me In a few years you will see a New airliner flying to Aruba. RonBlue Airlines( I kinda like the sound of that)

__________________
Born to raise Hell and enjoy every minute of it. Hawklords

Hey Ron,

What do say we call up Hugo Chavez and see if we can charter that new fleet of Russian Subs he is getting and operate a submarine shuttle from Oranjestad and Miami?? This would probably be real competition for some of the airlines.

I think "The RonBlue Steamship Line" has a nice ring to it!!

Aquaman

Yeah I like that you have some good ideas aquaman . your thinking business like me.And I always listen to business ideaS.

BTW I want you to know I use to collect comics when I was a kid back in the 60's and 70's and I do have some of you .You were on the DC Brand and your rival Sub mariner was on the Marvel label you had the blonde hair and better costume he just had a bathing suit and little wings on his ankles LOL

__________________
Born to raise Hell and enjoy every minute of it. Hawklords

For years about 9 years I flew AA to Aruba (with a fellow member of this board) and each and every year there were issues. Major issues. Like the time we taxied in NY/JFK to the runway then sat there for 4 hours, taxied back and after the plane was fixed, waited for another 3 hours to get a new crew (the old one used up their time). So, for this 7 hour delay we were given $15 meal vouchers. Other times included last minute equipment upgraded to accommodate the long list of stand-by passengers only to miss our connection in Florida and what feels like a million other issues (including one time we arrived 2 days late!-but this was blackout related).
Then JetBlue started flying to Aruba. My short evaluation.
No frills, but very kind and polite staff. Comfortable aircraft. I love the TV idea. The snacks are inadiquate but we bring our own. But most of all, the flights have always landed basically on-time!
I am happy as a you-know-what in you-know-what! Finally.
I get mail from AA now and I toss it without opening it.

I paid over $600/pp for our trip in November. I'm flying JetBlue and the tickets were the cheapest I could find at the time. I bought them the day the tickets went on-sale. Now, they are much higher.
Yesterday, I received an email from AA about a sale for Caribbean locations. Just to see, I checked it out. The only direct (JFK-AUA) was $850/pp. But, looking at some of the 1-stop fares, I was actually pretty amazed. They had fares ranging from $800/pp all the way down to $249/pp round trip. That was a 8am flight from JFK to Miami, then a 8pm flight to AUA. So, you enjoy a nice day in Miami and head back to the airport. I hate flights with stops, but at this savings, I guess I'll consider it in the future. (BTW, I've had problems with every airline I've ever flown, so I don't care which tin box I fly anymore)

I have resisted posting this, but when I read all the posts about airlines....the food ( or lack of/ poor quality), delays, cancellations, baggage issues etc., it takes me back to a point in time where an event happened that I would like to share. At the time, my daughters, then aged 5 and 10 were required to travel as UMs ( Unaccompanied Minors) under the programs offered by the airlines then, from New Zealand and Australia to Ottawa, Canada. They had travelled down to NZ without incident and everthing was fine. Their progress was tracked and all was well. Coming back was another story!!. They were to fly out on the now defunct airline, PanAm. They left Auckland,N.Z. on PanAm and what happened after that remains a mystery until today.

My daughters were scheduled to fly from Auckland to Hawaii and on to Vancouver and from there on to Ottawa. My wife and I went to meet the flight in Ottawa, and.....no kids!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

At that point enquiries and tracing was commenced. No one could clearly establish where they were or what had happened. From what we could finally gather, they were transferred to another airline due to a cancellation and somehow lost in the shuffle.

After 48hrs of searching and extreme stress, we received a phone call for which we will ever be thankfull. It was AA calling to say they had 2 little girls in their possesion in Chicago via Los Angeles, who, while not scheduled to fly with them, or had been booked with them, had been delivered to AA, as they had a flight to Toronto and the through Air Canada the kids could be back in Ottawa. My oldest daughter provided the contact info to AA.

I am forever grateful to AA for their efforts. It turns out the kids were bounced to other carriers without our knowledge and no communication of that fact.

As I said earlier, until today, we still do not know the whole story. Where they went.....who knows??

This is my airline story and a scary one at that. There are many other details, but none really establish what really happened or who was at fault. It just goes to show that systems that are designed to be safe and foolproof can fail.

Aquaman

This is my issue too! I would love to stick with Jet Blue, but sometimes their prices are ridiculous, and I will find Delta and AA cheaper. Since Delta and Jet Blue have treated me like dirt a couple of times in the past, as a Skymiles/True Blue member, I decided not to have any loyalty anymore and go with the cheapest rate at the time!

__________________

The problem I have is, when I booked, the flight I booked was the best flight from any airline. I was worried because prices were going up, up, up. At the time, I wanted to use JetBlue so I could use some vouchers before they expired. They were still the cheapest though. I'm not really a gambler, so I don't know if I'll be able to play the waiting game next year. What happens if these sales never happen for some reason and I end up paying a lot more? That's what I'm worried about.

__________________
BT