And, I do believe it was dogwriter that made essentially the exact same observation on this thread a week ago. See, members of this board are always one step ahead of the masses.


I know, I'm quoting myself. Promise I won't make it a habit.

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Once in a while you can get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

No argument from me, right, wrong or indifferent, let the law handle
things up to the very end. Not getting religious either, but I do believe
there is a God and if wrong doing did take place, I wouldn't want to be
in the O.J., M.J., Barretta, BTK line. I think the hand of God could hit
pretty damn hard.

later,
millertime

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ARUBA....One Happy Island

Later,
millertime

Miller, I don't need to reach for that extra beer anymore, now do I? Thanks Kevin!

It is quieter around here, I mean, less drama really. Ahhh...back to the way it was.

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Amie
Stylish Crochet Patterns
See me on this t.v. show!
"I'm not an actress. I just play one on t.v."

And, by the way, speaking of going back and re-reading events from last night, for those of you that haven't done so already, if you want to watch the beginning of the end of Gary, go back to post #800 and start reading from there.

It's perfect. Amie busted Gary big time!

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Once in a while you can get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

I read that very early this morning. O'Reilly now on my list of things to Tivo. That along with Nancy Disgrace, Geraldo, Hanity & Colmes, Scarborough, Greta... did I miss any. I only watched him once and I thought he interfered with another show, but he doesn't. Just more stuff to watch and drive me crazy, but I can fast forward through the junk I don't want to watch.

I hope he keeps that attitude tonight. Maybe it will be the highlight of all the shows.

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Why Don't We Get Drunk (Jimmy Buffett)

How nice again, it is evening, and all is civilized! How can one person make so many nuts!

I also use Spybot and Ad A Ware. Both are excellent, free and will not cause any problems on your computer!

__________________

I downloaded adaware, but it is too confusing to use.

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Why Don't We Get Drunk (Jimmy Buffett)

If I was Beth and Natalee was my daughter I would have probably been either deported from Aruba by now or I would have been in the Aruba jail. Whatever it took I would have been out there just like she has been. The 3 people who with Natalee last have been advised to keep their mouths shut and they have done so. Don't condemn Beth until you have walked in her shoes and I doubt very much if any of you ever will. It is easy to sit back and think about how perfect everything is on the island of Aruba when you have had nothing but wonderful experiences there but just for one minute put yourself in Beth's or Dave's shoes. This whole thing is going to end at some point but don't think the whole world is going to forget it. This little girl will probably never be found and Beth is going to go back to Mountain Brook, Alabama but her life will never be the same. Hopefully lots of parents in the United States will have learned a lesson from this unfortunate experience.

I agree with your last 2 sentences, anngie. But I don't think anyone has said Aruba is perfect. No where in the world is perfect, because human beings are not perfect. I don't think the world will ever forget over 2,000 dads, moms, sons and daughters killed for no reason in NYC on 9/11 or 50 people blow up in London, either!

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I have been reading for the last 45 minutes to get caught up wow what a differance a day makes!

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Tom C
I GET IT !

You are so right about 9/11 and the London Bombings. This is not an analogy of either. One girl missing in Aruba does not parallel either of these horrible tragedies. However, it is not right to condemn this woman. I do believe with all my heart that she has not been given the information that she needs to know that her daughter's disappearance has been taken seriously from the very beginning and that the case has handled with the diligence that would have resulted in it ultimately having been solved. What I am saying is that not to judge until you have walked in those shoes.

But Angie from what we have all learned to be fact the Aruban le cannot divlge any information by law. The same laws the Aruban people and tourists must abide by what makes her think she is so special? She also comes across imop to be a very rude, demanding, demeaning. obnoxious person. This is not a trait one aquires overnite.
As far as her grief my heart goes out to her.

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Tom C
I GET IT !

Hound... what if Natalee's never found?? Do the Twittys stay in Aruba forever?
The "means" you speak of is gratis. The car rental is free as is the hotel. According to Beth and Jug, financially they're being supported by friends.
Why do I think that neither you, I nor 99 and 9/10ths of parents with missing children would get that support??

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I just finished watching Nancy and O'Reilly at the same time (I'm a guy. I can do that with my remote.) I intend to respond to what I just saw but, I feel a need to respond to Anngie, first.

Anngie, you are 100% correct on at least one point; that being, we're talking about the family of a girl that has been missing since May 30th. None of us (presumably) have ever been in her shoes and none of us (hopefully) will ever be in her shoes in the future. None of us can say how we would handle the situation if it were left up to us.

You say that you would have been deported off the island or you would currently be in jail on the island if it was your daughter. Are there things you would be doing (or would have done by now) that the family has not done? No member of the family has been deported or has been put in jail. Neither have any of the groups and/or individuals that the family has brought to Aruba to 'privately' assist in the investigation. What would you have done differently?

Look, you have a desparate family that feels that the best thing they can do is to keep the story on the media's front burner. The way to do that has been to give the media what it wants.

I'm not going to go into any more details about that last point because this is getting redundant. This is a topic that has been discussed ad nauseam on this thread since this thread was opened. It's there for you to read.

But, the family came to Aruba with an attitude that this investigation must be done 'our way.' When Aruban LE did not go along with that game plan, the family went on the attack. They have ridiculed the island, its police, its government, and its procedures and they have played into the hands of people who are calling for boycotts of the island and would just as soon see the entire island's economy collapse, as if that would solve the mystery. All the while, the island has given and continues to give the family support that is unprecedented on an international scale.

I will continue to stand in defense of Aruba.

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Once in a while you can get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

Very well put Charlie.

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Janice

I agree 100% with Charlie.

You can't sign up on August 4th and decide that you think you know our opinions about Beth and Jug, etc. How one-sided of you. There are more than several of us who post here frequently, who, if you actually go back and read, had lots of warmth and sympathy towards the family, friends, and community undergoing the pain caused by her disappearance. I know for a FACT that when they thought they'd find her body, Sherry personally spent an evening writing out a very wonderfully touching tribute to Natalie and her family. That wasn't her job to do, but she did it from the heart. And she's not the only one.

I recommend you start here:
http://bb.visitaruba.com/showthread....4&page=1&pp=25

You have thousands of posts to read, and I'd get going because that's a lot of posts.

__________________
Amie
Stylish Crochet Patterns
See me on this t.v. show!
"I'm not an actress. I just play one on t.v."

I recommend you take your own advice.

__________________
Amie
Stylish Crochet Patterns
See me on this t.v. show!
"I'm not an actress. I just play one on t.v."

Sorry, Anngie, I'm not picking on you but....

The comment that "she [Beth] has not been given the information she needs to know that her daugher's disappearance has been taken seriously" is problematic to me.

This island has turned itself upside down to solve this mystery. This island shut down its government for half a day to volunteer its public workers for an extensive search. This island's LE has pursued every lead offered, even the most far-fetched leads, so as not to leave any stone unturned. This island (through its private sector) has donated equipment and personnel to assist in chasing down these leads. This island (through its private sector) has provided the extended family with lodging, meals, transportation and, perhaps even more importantly, unlimited and unqualified emotional and spiritual support. This island has welcomed the family with condolences and open arms.

The family has been welcomed into the homes and churches of Aruba. The family and their crisis has been the top priority on this island for this entire summer.

This island is taking this matter seriously and if Beth still needs more just so she knows that the investigation is being taken seriously..., well, I don't need to finish that sentence.

This thread has provided a really good open debate that has critiqued the investigation from the onset. Maybe mistakes were made in the first few hours or days - that, too has been discussed and debated ad nauseam and does not need to be completely rehashed, here.

But please don't suggest that (1) the investigation has not been taken seriously; or (2) the family is somehow 'entitled' to even more.

__________________
Once in a while you can get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

This says it all, anngie! The subject has been discussed ad nauseum on this board and there is no need to rehash it!

Hopefully, none of us will have to walk in Beth's shoes.

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I've said it before and I'll say it again right now.

Jeez, I wish you guys wouldn't quote me until after I've had a chance to go back and correct my spelling mistakes.

Just kidding, of course. Thanks for the support Corrine, Amie and Janice

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Once in a while you can get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

Late breaking!

Hyatt escapees have been captured!

confirmed fox news........................................................

later,
millertime

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ARUBA....One Happy Island

Later,
millertime

I'm going to coin a new phrase tonight: "fly-by posters." We've had a rash of them. People who sign up and like to insist they know some of our full opinions and then attempt to use their beliefs about our opinions against us.

If the message hasn't been loud and clear, hear it now:

Speak from your own experience (which in reverse means don't attempt to speak for other people or insist you know their full perspective)

Charlie, another great post. The island HAS bent over backwards.

You know, if you go back to that original thread, you'll see lots of posts from people who just signed up to wish the family well, other posts which mention how people on the island and ones on vacation joined in the search. There's a post there mentioning that Sandra from our Board went out to search too. It's not like people don't care, actually, quite the opposite. I think the members of this Board have been passionate about finding Natalie.

Do we think Beth has over-stepped her bounds? Each person has a slightly differing opinion. I think the greater portion of our locals on the Board have expressed the "enough is enough" feeling and I can sympathize with them.

Imagine your whole town was taken over by reporters looking for a missing child and not a week into the investigation, you've got the media making grandeous claims. And at the same time, the locals are out scouring the immediate area looking for her. HOW WOULD YOU FEEL? Talk about trying to put yourself into someone elses shoes.... They've been painted with the biggest broad brush by the media as a whole.

My Beth opinion? She's gone too far. Again, search back. You won't find many posts where I assert my opinion about the case, but many wishing they'd find her or thinking about ways to help find her etc. It compromises an investigation to have the mother of the missing child confront the formerly accused at his workplace. There's no gray area there. It's a stupid thing to do AND it compromises the search.

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Amie
Stylish Crochet Patterns
See me on this t.v. show!
"I'm not an actress. I just play one on t.v."

It's funny... I'm sitting here watching Greta chatting with Beth and saying to myself - what the hell else is there to discuss about this case? Greta's lead in to her show tonight was the usual "gonna rope you all in phrase," about a new tip that Beth got a little while ago. As usual, all that was was hype. It's the same old same old... something that will be checked out that Beth didn't want to expound on.

How many times can we say the same things over and over again? How many times can the Twittys say the same things over and over again? It's getting old or am I the only one who feels like this?

__________________

But it's FOX NEWS Miller...lol.

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Amie
Stylish Crochet Patterns
See me on this t.v. show!
"I'm not an actress. I just play one on t.v."

I can't say I watch Greedy Greta or Nancy Grimace, or any of the others who are in my opinion, sensationalist. That kind of stuff can put you in a bad mood. LOL. Ya get frustrated being toyed with when they make it seem like there's a new tip or twist in the case. It's all bologna.

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Amie
Stylish Crochet Patterns
See me on this t.v. show!
"I'm not an actress. I just play one on t.v."

With pictures though?

later,
millertime

I tuned in to listen to a couple minutes of Greta and it's the same
laundry. Beth gets a phone call, "her" PI is following up on it. She meets
this individual in person. Wants to remain annomous(sp). Maybe it's



GARY! Oh, no!

__________________
ARUBA....One Happy Island

Later,
millertime

Excellent point, Amie.

Also, excellent points made just above concerning the dynamic of this board.

__________________
Once in a while you can get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

I love it Miller!!! lol

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Elaine already said it but, that's hilarious, miller!

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Once in a while you can get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

OH! So I forgot to tell this ironic story today.

I was watching a show on some station about a man who went to prison for 17 years for the rape and beating of his wife, and death of his un-born child. The guy pleaded over and over again that he was innocent. His wife accused him of doing it and her testimony put him in jail. (Maybe she really thought he did it, they didn't lean any one way in the broadcast but mentioned that he was all over her for s*x even though she was 9 months pregnant) Regardless, it turns out that the real person who did it was a serial rapist. The guilty guy slipped in to this woman's house after her husband (the one who went to jail) went out to go get some take-out across town. When they did eventually find the killer/rapist, he was already in jail.

So imagine that. A man who was in prision for 17 long years, and he wasn't "guilty as sin" because he sat on the other side of the courtroom. Hmmm... FOOD FOR THOUGHT

__________________
Amie
Stylish Crochet Patterns
See me on this t.v. show!
"I'm not an actress. I just play one on t.v."

Hopefully lots of parents in the United States will have learned a lesson from this unfortunate experience.



Anngie,

Yeah-like not to fasten your own guilt and poor judgment on a country you know nothing about.

And not to be so stupid to only investigate an island after you send and pay for an 18 year old off on an unescorted party trip...And then lash out at everyone else because the country does not conform to your naive expectations. Most parents will buy and use a notebook and say No before such trips.
Get over it, Beth.

ahhhhh, home from the concert and it only took an hour to catch up on all of the posts, lol. sooooo nice to not see you know who.

just a quick comment or two about virus programs. after many frustrating moments with norton and mccaffe, we tried avg...the free anti virus program. we love it. it is more complete and easier to use. we also use adaware and spybot. free on cnet also easy to use after you figure them out.

ok, now i am off to sleep since it is already near morning. that is the only problem with going to a concert in dc. 40 minutes on the metro and over an hour in the car after the concert just to get home.

this is my first posting on this site. i just happened on it tonight. i gotta tell you though i have seen everything now. i'm not going to lower myself to be ignorant but, i want to say something. to those of you who have children , you should be very grateful that this is not your child missing . i read somewhere about a person saying things about the twitty family because they might have money and saying terrible things about them. about how they are snobs , ect,ect,. first off how do you know that ? do you know beth or jug ? do you know natalee ? i doubt it . are you saying things about joran ,kalpoes or their families ???? why not ? hmm, if i am correct, the vander sloot's have money , too. why not slander them too ? let me just say that you never know someone untill you have walked a mile in their shoes !!! since it is not you in beth holloways shoes and by the way, you better count your blessings that it is not, you should just keep your mouth closed if you have nothing good to say ...how can anyone who is spitting out crap from their mouths about this terrible thing that has happend sleep at night ? if it was my daughter, i would be on every newscast. radio show or anything else to find her and would you ?

And dj54, this will probably be your last post when those moderators get up this morning and read your post. Wow, you need to get out your dictionary or click on spell check. If you read the posts on this BB you will see that Gary is gone, you will most likely be next with that attitude.

My comment

__________________
Why Don't We Get Drunk (Jimmy Buffett)

My comment.
That was going to be used for you know who only, but I wake up today and have already used it twice. By using this, I get into no trouble.

Kevin are you going to use your magic finger again? POOF!

This is dj54's info.
Birthday:February 18, 1954
Have you ever been to Aruba?:NO - never
Do you own Timeshare in Aruba?: None
Any comments about your Aruba Trip(s): i will never visit aruba
Are you a VisitAruba Plus Member?: No
Location:new york
Occupation:retired
Interests: pets and people


Notice the line: i will never visit aruba


This leads me to believe that this person came in just to bash Aruba

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Why Don't We Get Drunk (Jimmy Buffett)

I was flipping through the channels last night as my stuff tapes when I am sleeping. I am surprised that no one said anything about Ruben Trapenberg on O'Reilly. What a set up! Charlie you said you watched it, no comment?

The start was something like, Is Aruba Being Set Up? Started off good, then O'Reilly aks why Aruba doesn't pay for all the twitty's bills. I thought Trapenburg would keel over (he should have). His response, they don't need to, the hotels are comping the bills along with others paying for things. They have also spent millions on trying to find her. Millions in the US may not be much, but in a country that small, it is a huge burden.

Enough is enough. This is out of control.

Does anyone have Trapenberg's e-mail? He says he has been gettnig nasty e-mails, I would like to send him a nice one.

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Why Don't We Get Drunk (Jimmy Buffett)

let me just say that you never know someone untill you have walked a mile in their shoes !!!



That is simply a bunk statement that condones and excuses any behavior by another person(s). Most people have the ability to observe and listen and to then think and apply their own experience.to assess that behavior, and discern what is appropriate or not.

So using these skills,let me say:1) the behavior of the HT's is rude; and 1) your post is rubbish.

Good morning, everybody.

Especially you, Ice. I woke up, read the overnight posts, heaved big sigh, then got to your posts, Ice. Nothing I can say that you haven't already said (or expressed without words, with a little help from blenchi).

But, of course, I'm going to say something anyway. A recent recurrent theme has been to suggest that we are being too hard on the family. To borrow an expression from last night, this has been discussed and debated on this thread ad nauseam and it's getting redundant.

The family has been given near unlimited license to handle the situation however they saw fit. They chose the tack that we have seen unfold over the course of the summer. I think I can safely say with the benefit of hindsight, it has been an ineffective strategy and, in the final analysis, has resulted in unnecessary hard feelings. That's putting it mildly. The license has just about expired.

Yeah, I saw Mr. Trapenberg on O'Reilly last night. That question (about paying all the Twitty's bills) was up there with the stupidest questions I have ever seen anyone ever asked on live TV. Surely O'Reilly knows about hotels, meals and transportation being comp'ed, equipment being donated, etc, etc. I don't know what he was trying to bait Mr. Trapenberg into saying.

__________________
Once in a while you can get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

I watched the re-play of O'Bill O'Reilly early this morning. The interview with Ruben Trapenberg, poor guy O'Bill tried really hard to make this guy slip up, as is his usual technique, he tried to put words in Trapenbergs mouth, but to no avail, Ole Ruben is wise to O'Bill. I wonder if BHT really realizes that the resorts, (now the Wyndom) do NOT have to foot her bill for her room, the car rental agency does NOT have to give her a car, and the restaurants do NOT have to give them all free meals. But they do, and she continues to bash everything about Aruba, so why should the Aruba Government pay, seems to me their bills are already being taken care of, and that BHT is taking total advantage of all of these companies. I am of the opinion that she really has jeapardized the case by approaching Deepak at the Internet Cafe, and then had the nerve to return the next day, good for Deepak for not being there. Ole BHT better watch out or she will be in the cell next to Joran if she keeps up her foolishness.

Did you see his face when he said that? That came way out of left field. I felt sorry for him. He did keep his cool though, like all the Arubans have been doing. How can they stay so calm? I am definately more high strung.

What I am now doing, if anyone wants to join in, is adding negatively to people's reputation (it's the scale by the post #). Don't know if it will do anything, but I did it anyway. I have also sent a bad post notification (the red yield sign) for one post. Also, not sure what that will do. I'm going to start doing that all the time, positive and negative for the reputaions.

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Why Don't We Get Drunk (Jimmy Buffett)

She has been jeorardizing the case since she set foot on Aruba. She would love to be in the cell next to him so she could "interogate" him. And Jug is "so proud" of her for harassing Deepak. Such sorry souls.

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Why Don't We Get Drunk (Jimmy Buffett)

I was going to comment on O'Reilly last night but then I got distracted. And I completely missed Greta but I could hear her in the other room and I could hear that Beth was on live. Really couldn't tell what they were saying, though.

On another note, Nancy didn't mention the story even once.

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Once in a while you can get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

Really? I guess I can just go and delete her show then. Believe it or now, I TiVo 5 hours of shows a night to browse through. I am

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Why Don't We Get Drunk (Jimmy Buffett)

Ice if you have skype I can help you with it.

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Money isn't everything but it sure keeps you in touch with the kids.

Geez.....you people have been really busy typing...each time I try to catch up...and I finally think I have...I get a couple of new pages to read...

Anyway....I have been having these thoughts/feelings these last couple of weeks. I don't know if I can really put it into (the right) words, but I will try...

We all know this is a tragedy for the family and friends of NH. We obviously all feel for them too.....

But...I have really noticed that...anyone and everyone who tries to criticize NH's family for their attitude or things they have done and are doing gets bashed immediatly. They are immediatly considered cold-hearted and insensitive because they are "bashing" someone who has a missing daughter and is going through this horrible ordeal. To those people I want to say -We all know this is horrible for the family. I think Aruba in general has done a lot to help, but where's the limit? How much do we have to take and accept...how much do we owe them really? Is it wrong if we feel offended by some of the things NH's family have done? Why do you expect this case to be solved as soon as possible when there are millions of other missing persons cases that have never been solved, or solved after..10...20..30 years? Haven't we done to this point more than what any other country would do or would have done to find a missing person?-what more do you expect?

Do you call the people who did their best to help you cold-hearted and insensitive? If so, what do you think the parents of thousands of other missing persons should call the people who didn't even bother to help them when their child went missing- and are watching how this case is getting so much attention? Is Natalee MORE special than any other missing person? I don't think so. Every single person is special...life is special...

My point is why call someone cold-hearted or insensitive just because they have some criticism about the ways things are being done? And to say- you should walk a mile in their shoes/ you don't know what they are going through/ you don't have a missing child- is just a way of saying you people should accept it all and give them whatever they want no matter what, even if they offend and ridicule you.

I am not cold-hearted/insensitive but I really think there are limits. If I had a missing relative I would be more than grateful that I have EVEN received so much help (which most people never get anyway).

Aruba doesn't give something to get something in return. I as an Aruban don't want the GRATITUDE for the things Aruba has done for this family. But- a little respect for our way of life and country will go a long way. We respect the family, we know they are going through hell, but that is not an excuse to accept everything they do.

So go ahead...call me the cold-hearted and insensitive Aruban.

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Do the day...and let the day do you!

And the FBI is not giving any information either...Its better not give any information.

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Money isn't everything but it sure keeps you in touch with the kids.

If I have what?

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Why Don't We Get Drunk (Jimmy Buffett)

You are so right. Can you get the e-mail address for Ruben Trapenburg and PM me with it? I can't find it online.

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Why Don't We Get Drunk (Jimmy Buffett)

Elaine,

There's no doubt that there will be a time when Beth will have to go home and get on with her life. I'm more speaking from a personal standpoint in saying that I would personally want to be there until I'm able to bring my daughter home. Of course, it may never happen, but it still doesn't defeat the fact that I would want to be there.

I understand the comps their receiving from the hotels and such, but the bills at home still don't stop. Living in Mountain Brook, Alabama is very expensive and requires a substantial amount of money to do so. That's the "means" that I speak of.