Allright got it, well that makes you an Aruban, we are all from somewhere else anyway, but still one at the end.

So true. I claim 'Aruban' because I was born there. So many Arubans were not born there but legitimately claim to be Arubans by adoption - they adopted Aruba and Aruba adopted them. It all counts!

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Once in a while you can get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

Very true, its just an extension of ONE BIG HAPPY FAMILY

And, as long as we're in the 'group hug' mode, I should add that, at any given point in time, there are several thousand guests on Aruba that are every bit as important to the overall scene as any of the local residents.

It's not just your money that you bring to Aruba, it's your attitudes and personalities. Obviously, the scene wouldn't work at all if ya'll didn't "get it."

__________________
Once in a while you can get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

in the states we all get water bills. some communities are higher than others. water in baltimore city is 3X the price of baltimore county as an example. water in aruba is very expensive per month. one of the highest bills for home owners.

According to Web NV, the only water provider in Aruba, the average house uses $82.00 US per month. Houses with extensive landscaping use $170.00 US & with swimming pool, about $250.00

Hmmmm you bring up a good point for those of us thinking about buying a condo in Aruba. Maybe timeshare is the way to go.

We were about to plan our trip to Aruba this year in July and than this Natalee thing hit and we couldn't get any hotel rooms that would be for subsequent days. Our travel agent had major probs in getting 10 days together, they would have maybe 3 days and than nothing and than 2 days available and than nothing, it became to frustrating so we decided to wait and book in spring 2006. Hopefully by than things will have calmed down. But than again Beth said she plans to stay there for the next 40 years ......wonder what her son Matt who is only 16 years old thinks about his
missing mother....

That's not entirely true. We a have a normal size swimming pool, and we paid last month 172 florins. We even refilled our pool several times during the month.
We even use water to clean the backyard which is completely tiled.

Which sounds about right.....when I lived in Aruba our water bill was NEVER that high.....172.00 Florins (95.00 USD) sounds right for all that water. We didn't have a pool but water plants constantly and our water bill was always around 35.00-50.00 max per month.

__________________
Some people get lost in thought because it's unfamiliar territory.

I don't agree with this either. I have a wife and 2 kids. We each shower twice a day, we have a washing machine which we use on a weekly basis. Not much landscaping. Our bill usually is about $30.00 monthly. Electricity on the other hand is very expensive. We have 2 split units. We use one every night, the other only when it is very hot because I prefer to sleep in the fresh air. It runs us about $100.00 monthly, lately a little higher because of fuel prices.

rolaruba - That's good to know. When we bought our house, all I could find was a web site that gave average bills for all ulities. We will not be receiving a full months bill until we stay there the month of Jan.

Tom

I should call my mother to ask how much she pays per month. She always complains that water and electr. is so expensive and she lives alone and doesn't use alot.

She let it checked several times but every time they say its alright. I told her to put a new water and electricity meter.

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Money isn't everything but it sure keeps you in touch with the kids.

While watching the news last night it was reported that Olivia Newton John's long time boyfriend is missing. He has been missing since June! He went fishing on a group charter off of California. People remember seeing him on the boat but not sure if he returned with them when the boat docked.

Hello guys,

I just wanted to let you all know that I'm travelling to (Beijing) China tommorow, I'm gonna stay there for a period of almost 3 months. So- I don't think you'll be seeing much of me on this board during that period. I'll try to drop in once in a while to check on things (whether you are behaving or not! Whahaha). I thought I'd better tell you where I am going and for how long..so you don't think that I have gone missing when the weeks start passing by....hihihi...

Luli

__________________
Do the day...and let the day do you!

China - that's exciting.

Have a Great trip.


ARUBA BOUND
Dec. 23-Jan. 1
April 13-28

Take care Luli! Have a nice trip! We will miss you! Please check in periodically, we would love to hear from you!

__________________

Luli have a nice time in China. Hope to hear from you once in awhile. Take care....

__________________
Money isn't everything but it sure keeps you in touch with the kids.

BBold;

Thank you for bringing this up again! I tried to address the real importance of this (underlined/bold portion of your statement) and some other issues I felt the board members could take some constructive action on (way back on post #1042), but only a few responded... and some thought it would be too presumptuous. (NOT! We are ALL so vested in this, we are now part of the family! )

I was going to write again and better explain the WHAT, WHY and HOW it might be done (tastefully), and that it would be a real kindness all the way around! Since I wasn't taken very seriously the first time around and my post was lost in the shuffle, I hope your words will awaken the compassion I was trying to stir! Thank you!!

Sincerely,

"Rummy"
_________________________

P.S. -- I am providing the link to the Online Petition site for "Molly's Law", which I hope you will visit and read what we, as a group of search dog handlers from all areas of Law Enforcement and Search and Rescue across the country, are working on to help combat the problem of lost, missing and abducted children and adults.

http://www.PetitionOnline.com/MollyLaw/petition.html

Your signature will be greatly appreciated -- and please share this link and information freely with EVERYONE you possibly can! We need the help of all handlers and other concerned citizens to get the word out, as we plan to get the actual 12-point law we have written... passed as a National/Federal Law! Many thanks for all your support!!

The Hague is not the capital of the Netherlands, Amsterdam is. The Hague is the capital of the province of South Holland (provincie Zuid-Holland). The Hague is the seat of the dutch government and the place where the international court of justice is seated. Here is a link to the website: http://www.icj-cij.org/icjwww/igeneralinformation.htm If you click on Docket, you can see all the upcoming court cases.

Now for the statutory limit for murder in the Netherlands is 18 years. The dutch government is currently contemplating to change that limit from 18 to 30 years or even to set no limit at all. That would mean you can be arrested and brought to justice for the rest of your life.

Rummy.... your post was by no means not not taken seriously. I, for one, thought about it and said that as for me, and as a group, I thought it would be presumptuous to write Beth. It has nothing to do with compassion since we've all expressed how obviously devastating this must be to the families.

There's only one person who will know when it's the right time for Beth to leave, and that's Beth. She feels she has a mission - right or wrong, and until she feels that that mission has been accomplished, she's there to stay.

If you feel that it's the right thing to do, to let her know what you think, by all means send her your thoughts.

__________________

Sandra, always an authority when we need you - thanks!

__________________

I had to go back and re-read that portion of the thread, myself. I agree with Elaine. Rummy, I think your post was taken very seriously and given real consideration but we kind of concluded as a group that trying to get some message to Beth would be futile. It might be cathartic for us as a group to start some thread like, "What would I say to Beth Twitty if I had the chance?" but, honestly, the idea of us 'geting through to her' seems like more than a long shot. Plus, with the story dying even in the tabloid media and new 'positive backlash' stories emerging in its wake, interest may have already passed it's shelf life.

Elaine's right. IMO Beth can stay on Aruba as long as she feels she needs to (and is financially able to). This mystery has not hurt Aruba so far and will not hurt Aruba in the future. And if this is what she feels she needs to do, who are we to say we would handle the same situation any better if we had to face it. (Ya'll already know my opinion about her need to make daily sound bites to the tabloid media. I hope that ends forever real soon.)

For the record, I hope and presume that Beth is privately keeping in touch with her son and step-son. I can imagine them having some issues over this ordeal.

By the way, Beth will be back in Birmingham later this week to participate in a fund raising silent auction that was organized by another Mountain Brook High School graduate, Courtney Cox-Arquette (is she still an Arquette?)

__________________
Once in a while you can get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

The Latest update from the Daily Planet







“ It appears that Mr. Kent’s search has be delayed due to the inability to find a phone booth on Aruba; meanwhile, Miss Lane is having great difficulties attempting to get airtime from Miss Disgrace. Disgrace wants equal airtime with Mr. Kent in order to up her ratings.



Super diver, Murray has had no luck with his search, being unable to locate the Antilla.



However, not all is lost; speaking of luck, Sherry hit a penny slot machine at the Alhambra for $0.72. She posed for photos, which should be in Aruba Today, later this week.



In the meantime, the Daily Planet has posted a web site searching for a pre-50’s phone booth”



It has also been reported that Gary, super Detective, along with Joe Friday are seeking funds for a trip to Aruba. Along with Jake the Junk Man, they plan to search the dump

Ed of You,

That's hilarious!

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Once in a while you can get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

Ed, have you thought of posting on The Queen's Saga? You are very funny!

Rummy - And I have to agree with the others as well. I went back to the post where I and a few others addressed your valid points! It is not that we didn't take it seriously, we just didn't feel it was the right thing to do at the time! But that shouldn't stop you from doing it.

And I jumped at the chance to sign Molly's Law! Thank you for posting that very important link.

__________________

Thanks for the information that clarifies and corrects some misinformation previously posted on the board (some by me) about the statute limit for murder. I hope the 18 limit is increased to either 30 or life because modern advances in DNA make it possible to solve crimes even after all the witnesses are long dead and buried.

There is also suppose be a second molestation allegation against Joran soon. If he did indeed attack Natalee, it always seemed strange that there was only one victim. This thread will likely become more active if a second teenage victim does come forward, and Joran will likely lose all hope of freedom in the immediate future as a new period of interrogation/investigation would begin.

Tonight the owner and editor of the Arubian Newspaper Dario announced on the O'Reilly Factor that he knows of 3 girls on the island who said Joran gave them the date rape drug and raped them.

Deepak's attorney was on tonight and he added some interesting information:


-that the supposed statement by Joran that Deepak raped Natalee was never signed in any type of a declaration by Joran.....and also sid it was "I think he did..." which is far different than saying he did in fact.

- says that the boys all MET other girls from Natalees class at the bus station AFTER they left the bar (C and C's). He said the classmates all SIGNED a declaration to this fact. They also said that was prearranged at the bar and that the girls asked Natalee if she wanted to join them when they met and she said NO. If this is true, there is very poor "balanced: reporting by any station or reporter-at least I have never heard such a statement.

- that all the parties were drunk, including Natalee and the defendants....no hiding that per the attorney. But he said no drugs were involved.

- he said Natalee was LAYING on the bar at C and C's and that others were giving her jello shots and bouncing them off her navel.........also said this was in a signed statement

-said that triangulation places Joran near the Marriott at 2:30 to 3 based on cell phone records etc.

Another private practice attorney said he has not seen ANY statements or evidence to date that proves that any violent crime occurred.

this is the one thread that i have been keeping up with for the obvious reason of being the big mean main moderator. mild mannered and meek are for the other threads. do you all realize how stupid these last statements might sound to outsiders? a charge of rape? on what evidence? get real. jossy is such a fool that even his own countrymen don't believe a word he says. where does he come up with this? if just one of his tall tales was true i would faint. if he did bring someone forward i would wonder 1. why did it take so long? 2. how much did he bribe them?

you know, the arubans are very lucky people. very few homes get msnbc or fox. talk about being blessed. i sure have enjoyed the fact that murray can't come running in to wake me and say...'guess what greta and beth said tonight!'

I guess I'm a little naive but I don't know what "... giving her jello shots and bouncing them off her navel" means?

Yes, that is naive.

You know what jello is, right? And you know what alcohol is right? Take the two and mix'em together and refridgerate. Someone gets on the bar and pulls off some clothing and pours the shot onto the other person's body part. Now take a guess what the other person standing next to the bar has to do to get that shot into their mouth.

I'm hoping you don't need a description of "bouncing them off her navel" means.

__________________
Amie
Stylish Crochet Patterns
See me on this t.v. show!
"I'm not an actress. I just play one on t.v."

The three girls that the "journalist" (mansur? said were raped may be the 3 that were mentioned this am on the Today show...and the word rape was not used...


-one said that Joran was "aggressive" in trying to get her into a cab after C and Cs. My bet is this is the girl who contacted Beth while she was sleuthing in Alabama and reported the "151" shot incident.....sounds very weak

-the other two mentioned today went with Joran to his place where toucing occurred..the report did not say if there was consenus or not..and also did not inducate if they went agaisnt their will to his house.......does not sound like strong testimony if it occurred

In other words, Joran and these girls are like most other teens in High school or college

The agreement is that there still is not sufficient evidence to show that any crime was committed against Natalee Holloway.

There was discussion last nite that they can keep Joran in jail another 30 days if they use a lesser charge and try to get a higher charge later. They did not mention what the "lesser" charge would be.

I know we have some leagl experts here.

What is the process from this point forward ? Thanks.

A lesser charge could be lying to the police.
I heard about that. The maximal sentence for that is 6 years for an adult.
I doubt they might charge him with that, he might get sentenced to time served.

http://www.drudgereport.com/flash4.htm

CABLE BATTLE: CNN HEAD CALLS FOXNEWS COVERAGE 'MEANINGLESS NONSENSE'
Tue Aug 23 2005 20:34:26 ET

CNN President Jonathan Klein implies ratings news leader FOXNEWS is mired in coverage of "meaningless nonsense," claiming: "Fourteen Americans dead, and they have Natalee Holloway on," Klein says. "And they're supposedly America's news channel."

"It's easy and it's brainless," Klein charges in a telephone interview set for publication at the NEW YORK TIMES, explaining why cable news outlets are gravitating to the Aruba story. "They're looking for an ongoing drama" along the lines of the NBC crime show "Law & Order," he said, adding, "Except 'Law & Order' doesn't do the same plot every night."

"There are an awful lot of things you can cover if you don't have people tied up with this meaningless nonsense," Klein says.

In early July, Klein pulled CNN's correspondent out of Aruba and dropped the subject from most CNN shows in the absence of new developments.

"If Jon performed as well as he talks, he wouldn't have to explain his network's dismal ratings," says Irena Briganti, a spokeswoman for FOXNEWS. "We have trounced him on every breaking news story from the London bombings and last week's events in Gaza."

Impacting...


While some of these statements may be true, it sounds a lot like sour grapes given the success of Fox News in the ratings. Also given that his network continues to cover the case, he needs to be careful what he says. If CNN had completely dropped the case, his words might mean a little more.

Jan,


Thanks for that infromation.

If there is no forensic or firsthand eye witness testimony, do you think it is likely at this point that Joran will be held over another 30 days or will he be freed soon (they said last nite this may go to a hearing as early as next Wednesday...I've also heard 9/4 as a key date?)

For those who think the Aruban justice system is so much more lax than ours, there is no way a suspect could be held this long in the US without being formally charged. Joran has yet to be charged at all...and has been held for questioning for a long while......

By the way, unrelated, there used to be a Dutch restaurant that had great burgers at the end of a boulevard, king of by itself...with owners from Holland..terrific and unusual burgers....is it still there...wish I could recall the name..sorta like a diner in the US?

Here is some interesting reading concerning Jossy.

I have scanned the "La Prensa" newspaper of August 17, 2005 using adobe reader to copy here. There might be some conflicts with the lettering.






Innocent until proven guiltY


Jossy,


I will continue to write to you in the English language, so that your friends in the American media, can also follow our exchange of ideas in the case of the disappearance of Natalee Holloway, and so that they can also get to know you a lot better. I will however not stoop to the low level of name calling and personal insults that you have displayed in your open letter to me. Maybe that is the reason you decided to answer me in Papiamentu, so that your American friends would not know the kind of insults and lies you can spew, when you have no reasonable and sane arguments to express.




Nobody, and I mean nobody, should be happier than you Jossy, that everybody is innocent until proven guilty.

Do you remember the super secret intelligence report of April 20th 1995, destined only for the eyes of the Governor of Aruba, the Prime Minister of Aruba, the Head Prosecutor of Aruba, the Interim Head of the Security Services of Aruba, the Prime Minister of the Netherlands, the Minister of Netherlands-Antillian and Aruban Affairs, the Head of the Interior Security Service of the Netherlands, the chief director of KABNA in the Netherlands and for the Archives of the Interior Security Services. This report was issued by the Dutch Internal Security Service in cooperation with intelligence services of the United States, Venezuela, Colombia, Aruba and the Netherlands Antilles.

Just imagine where you would be today, if any of those allegations that are mentioned in this very secret document could be proven. But luckily you are innocent until proven guilty.




This report amongst other things states that the biggest danger for the security of Aruba is the drug cartels which operate in some of the neighboring countries and which generate large amounts of money. This money has to be washed. To do this they make use of well-established families with large assets in legal activities. They further mention that such an influential family with friendly connection to government is dominant on Aruba. Any idea which family they are talking about, Jossy?




They also mention the fact that in files from police-security and investigative organizations, the names of promi- nent Aruban business people and their companies have been mentioned during the last 15 years. These prominent families worked primary as washers of drug money.

The investigation confirms the long existing suspicion that some members of a very dominant Aruban family and some friendly associates are the center of these criminal Aruban activities.

Do you know who they are talking about Jossy?




The report further states that information from American investigations give a view in the way the network of these Aruban families work, and it also gives an impression of the enormous amounts of their illegal turnovers. These families are manipulating and committing fraud on a large scale with existing and nonexisting merchan- dise transactions, bills of ladings, bank accounts and shell companies.




The report concludes that the above mentioned Aruban families have a substantial part personally ,as through their companies in the organized criminal activities with regards to the commerce in drugs and especially with

the legalization of the proceeds from this drug business. Have you any idea whom they are talking about Jossy?




The report than proceeds to mention a few names of prominent Aruban business people, some very well known and related to you. Some of these people served jail time in the United States of America, house arrest in Puerto Rico, and jail time in Curacao.

Finally the report has this to say about a gay named Jossy:

.Jossy…………..(born Aruba date)






Jossy is the owner and editor in chief of the very influential newspaper………. Besides that he is also

a director of the family enterprise ……..." . and owner of some other companies on Aruba and a chain of video stores in Florida.

Jossy made preparations in 1992 and 1993 and started executing activities with the white
























Djarason17ougustus2005 ARUBA.La Prensa 23





washing of drug money, transactions with false bank papers, the sale of a shipment of jewels with an unrealistic value.

Jossy looked for his transactions to a well-known Dutch ex-thief, Ari Oliver, whom he tried to setup as a point man for the whitewashing of criminally obtained drug money from Europe. Conversation between Jossy and Oliver took place on Aruba and some times in Amsterdam.





Various funds obtained through the trade in arms and nacrcotics according to Jossy were ready to be washed.





..

There was 20 million US dollars to be washed in an investment bank in Zagred, Croatia.

.. 100 million US dollars in false bank guarantees in the name of a company formed by Jossy, the Fritzroy Corporation destined to be invested in an American video chain.

.. 65 million US dollars in a bank in Ecuador.

500 million US dollars in a Swiss bank





Jossy, you should really be happy that you are innocent until proven guilty !





Some say that your friendship with the Ex Prime Minister of Aruba and the late Ex Minister of Justice were the reasons that none of these allegations were further investigated, with the same zeal and urgency that you now demand from the investigators against Joran van der Sioot. It helps sometimes to have friends in high places.





As the days go by Jossy, I will be informing on all the different cases and times you were innocent until proven guilty. I am at the moment compiling all the instances mentioned in the different intelligence reports, like this

one, and books about you, since I want to be well documented and credible.

As you can see, you have had many instances of serious allegations being raised against you, but still you are innocent until proven guilty, why can't you give Joran vander Sioot, the same benefit of the doubt that you have been given so many times?

Why are you so obsessed with destroying this boy? .

If and when he is proven to be guilty, I would agree with you, but just like you, he has not been proven guilty yet! So like you he should be innocent until proven guilty!

A lovable person like you, who never smuggled anything, but was just supplying the "goods" to boat captains who did the smuggling into Venezuela and Colombia, you must be able to give Joran van der Sioot the same kind of courtesy you have enjoyed all these years.





Unless those ugly rumors are true. That you are out for revenge against the boy's father who was one of those prosecutors who was trying to mess up your smuggling business. Sorry your business of supplying goods to smugglers or maybe you want to ridicule the Aruban police, who for years were one of you nemesis, checking and rechecking your business activities your cargo and shipments, sometimes even confiscating contraband coming into Aruba, by the same boat captains, you were supplying with goods to be smuggled to other countries.





You have to realize Jossy, that innocent until proven guilty has to count the same for everybody, for you and for Joran, against whom there is practically no known proof, not even the certainty that a crime was committed.





And remember it isn't worth destroying Aruba's tourist economy, just to gain personal revenge.

Even though you may not want to admit it, Jossy, Aruba is not yours.

Aruba belongs to thousands of people, who want to make an honest living supplying services and a goods to thousands of visitors.

Don't spoil it for them with your stupidity and thirst for revenge.





AA.Jonckheer Publisher

Oooops, my finger slipped, I believe I just emailed a copy to Bill O'reilly

Interesting Rola... Jossy quite obviously has an "axe to grind," and in my opinion, continuously looks and sounds like an idiot. So far he's batting zero! Thanks for the article.

__________________

Tell that to the prisoners at Gitmo, some of whom have been held for years w/o specific or formal charges. 9/11 opened us up to a new era...

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ROLARUBA.....

Job well done.....when I lived in Aruba from 92-99 there was a ton of speculation about the Mansur's activities on the island....There has always been a cloud over Jossy and I got to believe what my Dad used to say...."where there is smoke there is usually a fire"

Personally I believe Jossy has been coming up with these crazy rumors and "eyewitnesses" and now girls who supposedly had ***ual encounters with Joran" for one purpose.....to sell Newspapers and to get on T.V. on a nightly basis....the man has always been in love with himself.....what editor/owner of a newspaper writes editorials constantly in their own paper to further the political aspirations of his friends....I thought the press was to be truthful and unbiased !!!
I used to flip sometimes when I would read his editorials....talk about one man trying to persuade an island on how to think and who to vote for !!!! THAT'S HIM !

AGAIN....job well done Rolaruba....specially with the slip of that finger !!!!!!!

__________________
Some people get lost in thought because it's unfamiliar territory.

Rolaruba - thanks for the post, very interesting reading. I'm learning more and more about Jossy and his family, not much of it good. His motives are questionable to say the least - I can see why he might want to put Joran away, and why he may want to stir the public against law enforcement. The funny part is, in his efforts to try and crumble the tourist economy (why??), it's apparently backfiring!

__________________

ay ayyyyy.....though letter of Jonckheer but why send it to Bill O'reilly?

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Money isn't everything but it sure keeps you in touch with the kids.

That was a tasty niblet Rola. Holy Cannoli. I hope it comes to bite him where the sun don't shine because I (not for one) am personally tired of seeing him ramble on. Sounds to me like he's making up stories to diffuse from his own personal chaos. What an idiot.

__________________
Amie
Stylish Crochet Patterns
See me on this t.v. show!
"I'm not an actress. I just play one on t.v."

BLENCHI.....LET ME ANSWER YOUR QUESTION !!!!!please please please.....

Why send the article to Bill O'Reilly? you ask ....so he and the other idiots can stop throwing Jossy on the T.V. and make everyone "think" Jossy knows what he's talking about.......the man is known for being full of hot air and this proves to me everything that I have always heard about him going back 13 years !!!!!

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Some people get lost in thought because it's unfamiliar territory.

La Prensa is a newspaper of Curacao. A.A.Jonckheer(Chicho) has his own newspaper too Ultima Noticia. Very prominent family in Curacao. This is the battle of the press.....

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Money isn't everything but it sure keeps you in touch with the kids.

Doesn't Jossy Mansur also have something to do with the scandal at La Cabana and the casino that is in poor shape because they have not paid rent or back taxes in years?

The other charges are suppose to be obstruction of justice and molesting Natalee. Supposedly, Joran admitted to friends and the police that he touched Natalee inappropriately after she passed out. That was described as "molesting" by a private detective on TV. He also said that Joran's confessions to the police and others of molesting Natalee might be enough to convict him of that charge. No body is necessary. The obstruction of justice charge also seems easy to prove to me.

BLENCHI..... please resend your PM I cleared out my mailbox.

__________________
Some people get lost in thought because it's unfamiliar territory.

She passed out? Where?

__________________
Money isn't everything but it sure keeps you in touch with the kids.

Blenchi....I'm so sorry, I cleared out my stored messages and not the inbox.....it SHOULD be cleared now, if not it's time for my lobotomy ! LOL

__________________
Some people get lost in thought because it's unfamiliar territory.