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Old Sunday, February 3rd, 2008, 06:55 PM
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Default Peter R. de Vries broadcast about Natalee Holloway case

I just saw the broadcast of Peter R. de Vries where Joran van der Sloot talks about the night that Natalee Holloway disappeared. Using a hidden camera Joran has talked freely about the night that Natalee Holloway disappeared. He is confessing this towards a person he met in The Netherlands that has gained the trust of Joran.

In short: Joran has met Natalee at the Excelsior casino in the HI hotel. Afterwards they went to Carlos 'n Charlies. Joran went away together with Natalee with the car of the brothers Deepak and Satish Kalpoe. The brothers left Joran and Natalee at a beach near the Marriott. There they made love and Joran tells that all of a sudden Natalee starts shaking heavily and dies. According to Joran she drank a lot of alcohol and might have used coke as well. Not knowing what to do he has called a friend, Daury. This friend offered to help Joran make the body disappear. According to Joran, Daury has taken the body of Natalee on his boat with the help of Joran. Joran went home while Daury went out to sea and disposed of the body out in the ocean. Joran has said that he thought that Natalee was dead but was not entirely sure about it. She might have been unconscious or in a coma.

At the end of the show, Peter has shown the first reaction of Natalee's mother. She was, ofcourse, intensely shocked by the confessions of Joran.

The program has probably given a lot of answers but still leaves questions unanswered as well. The friend of Joran, Daury, has not been tracked down. This is left to the police by Peter R. de Vries because technically, this may be the person that has actually disposed of her body and may have even killed her since he wasn't sure if Natalee was actually dead or not. Joran claims to have walked home from the beach, while earlier he declared that he was brought home by one of the Kalpoe brothers.

On me, Joran left the impression of a coldhearted person, who is only concerned with himself and not with the fate of Natalee. He also gives the impression of being very shrewd and very aware of the way the Aruban Justice system works. His father was a judge in training there so obviously he knows the system.

Last edited by dwippies; Sunday, February 3rd, 2008 at 07:12 PM. Reason: typo
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Old Sunday, February 3rd, 2008, 07:00 PM
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Default Re: Peter R. de Vries broadcast about Natalee Holloway case

We are now about to opening this thread to discussion again with news from Holland.

Behave, don’t bad mouth each other, remember this is a pg-13 board, and it will remain open for at least a few days. I will not have a problem deleting any really nasty posts.

Thanks everyone. Hate to sound harsh but I still have nightmares about the first 6 months.
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Old Sunday, February 3rd, 2008, 07:01 PM
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Default Re: Peter R. de Vries broadcast about Natalee Holloway case

Thank you for the report, Coen.

Okay, y'all. The floodgates are officially open. Please keep it civil.
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Old Sunday, February 3rd, 2008, 07:16 PM
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Default Re: Peter R. de Vries broadcast about Natalee Holloway case

This is a question. The Aruban authorities have maintained that there is a radar system which tracks all boat traffic to/from the island. If that's the case, wouldn't they have had knowlege of this? They use this system to keep track of illegal imigrants/activities. Who is this Daury person? Does he exist?
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Old Sunday, February 3rd, 2008, 07:16 PM
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Default Re: Peter R. de Vries broadcast about Natalee Holloway case

Just watched the show of Peter R de Vries. It was a shocking thing to see, Joran spilled it all, it was unbelievable to hear him talk about it, the disrespect he was displaying was shocking. Afther seeing Natalee's mother being confronted with the footage we hope the case will be rept up soon and see can get some closier.
After seeing Joran talk i don't think people can say now that Peter is one of those who just claims he's got the answer, the aswers were there for everyone to see and hear.
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Old Sunday, February 3rd, 2008, 07:19 PM
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Default Re: Peter R. de Vries broadcast about Natalee Holloway case

crosby, i am sure that it isn't looking for 'blips' that are the size of a 20' outboard. they are tracking things that are big enough to cross large bodies of water. it is almost impossible when surrounded by water to track it all.

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This is a question. The Aruban authorities have maintained that there is a radar system which tracks all boat traffic to/from the island. If that's the case, wouldn't they have had knowlege of this? They use this system to keep track of illegal imigrants/activities. Who is this Daury person? Does he exist?
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Old Sunday, February 3rd, 2008, 07:21 PM
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Default Re: Peter R. de Vries broadcast about Natalee Holloway case

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Originally Posted by sherry View Post
We are now about to opening this thread to discussion again with news from Holland.

Behave, don’t bad mouth each other, remember this is a pg-13 board, and it will remain open for at least a few days. I will not have a problem deleting any really nasty posts.

Thanks everyone. Hate to sound harsh but I still have nightmares about the first 6 months.
Sherry ~ Don't feel as though you are being harsh..you and Charlie are doing what it takes to keep this a family board..keep up the good work
Tico
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Old Sunday, February 3rd, 2008, 07:21 PM
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Default Re: Peter R. de Vries broadcast about Natalee Holloway case

I was just going by what the Aruban authorities brought up at the time.
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Old Sunday, February 3rd, 2008, 07:22 PM
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Default Re: Peter R. de Vries broadcast about Natalee Holloway case

tico, this is why i love you!

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Sherry ~ Don't feel as though you are being harsh..you and Charlie are doing what it takes to keep this a family board..keep up the good work
Tico
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Old Sunday, February 3rd, 2008, 07:23 PM
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Default Re: Peter R. de Vries broadcast about Natalee Holloway case

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Originally Posted by sherry View Post
crosby, i am sure that it isn't looking for 'blips' that are the size of a 20' outboard. they are tracking things that are big enough to cross large bodies of water. it is almost impossible when surrounded by water to track it all.
It was suggested in the program that Daury (they had a last name on him but it was beep-ed out and left to the authorities) was a 'banana-boat' operator. He used one of these very small boats that they use to pull these banana-boat rides.
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Old Sunday, February 3rd, 2008, 07:23 PM
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Default Re: Peter R. de Vries broadcast about Natalee Holloway case

Thank you Cohen for the update and the translation.
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Old Sunday, February 3rd, 2008, 07:26 PM
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Default Re: Peter R. de Vries broadcast about Natalee Holloway case

sorry crosby, if i am a little snippy understand that i am dieting and i was in the middle of my first carbs of the day when the story broke, lol. i need those carbs to survive, hahaha.

i think that the arubans really do track very well since i know they constantly are finding illegals and drug smugglers and i am sure the system can see all but we humans will automatically not notice things that aren't that important to us. think of eye witness descriptions and how off they usually are. human error gets in the way of perfection all the time.

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I was just going by what the Aruban authorities brought up at the time.
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Old Sunday, February 3rd, 2008, 07:40 PM
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Default Re: Peter R. de Vries broadcast about Natalee Holloway case

If some of you would like to see the video and Natalee's mom reaction.
Sorry but that guy even if he's lying makes me feel sick in my stomach...

http://www.vkmag.com/videos/videos_r...talees_moeder/
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Old Sunday, February 3rd, 2008, 07:40 PM
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Default Re: Peter R. de Vries broadcast about Natalee Holloway case

No apologies necessary Sherry. Was on low carb diet once-never again.
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Old Sunday, February 3rd, 2008, 07:45 PM
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Default Re: Peter R. de Vries broadcast about Natalee Holloway case

thanks glaval! i totally agree with you. this is horrible to even watch.

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Originally Posted by qlaval View Post
If some of you would like to see the video and Natalee's mom reaction.
Sorry but that guy even if he's lying makes me feel sick in my stomach...

http://www.vkmag.com/videos/videos_r...talees_moeder/
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Old Sunday, February 3rd, 2008, 07:48 PM
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Default Re: Peter R. de Vries broadcast about Natalee Holloway case

this isn't really a low carb diet but it seemed to be a low carb day. not good for me. thanks for understanding.

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No apologies necessary Sherry. Was on low carb diet once-never again.
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Old Sunday, February 3rd, 2008, 07:59 PM
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Default Re: Peter R. de Vries broadcast about Natalee Holloway case

Oh my gosh, that is so hard to watch.
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Old Sunday, February 3rd, 2008, 08:10 PM
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Default Re: Peter R. de Vries broadcast about Natalee Holloway case

The only comment I will make, other than agreeing that it was terrible to watch, is that I am not surprised about his confession, nor am I surprised that she was brought out to sea. Regardless of what my friends have said, there was never any doubt in my mind as to what happened to her.

I sincerely hope her parents find peace. Regardless of the rumor mills that went round and round about her mother, she was still her mother (and her father) and I hope whether they make a case or not, knowing what has happened to her will lead them down the path of getting on with their lives.
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Old Sunday, February 3rd, 2008, 08:21 PM
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Default Re: Peter R. de Vries broadcast about Natalee Holloway case

You have to see the whole story. The reaction of the mother was very emotional ofcourse. Mainly I think because of the cold heartedness of Joran. He was more concerned about his own well being than that of Natalee's.

Although, if this is the real story he was not responsible for her death in the first place. He could have just gone to the police and reported it. Instead, he messed up and tried to get rid of her body. I think what is crucial now is to find the person (or persons, Peter R. de Vries had his doubts on this point if it was one person or more) that helped Joran and see what he has to say.
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Old Sunday, February 3rd, 2008, 08:39 PM
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Default Re: Peter R. de Vries broadcast about Natalee Holloway case

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Originally Posted by Coen View Post
....if this is the real story he was not responsible for her death in the first place. He could have just gone to the police and reported it...
Ditto here but imagine if she was only in a coma... then going to the police could have saved her but that part we probably will never know for sure.
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Old Sunday, February 3rd, 2008, 08:48 PM
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Default Re: Peter R. de Vries broadcast about Natalee Holloway case

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coen View Post
You have to see the whole story. The reaction of the mother was very emotional ofcourse. Mainly I think because of the cold heartedness of Joran. He was more concerned about his own well being than that of Natalee's.

Although, if this is the real story he was not responsible for her death in the first place. He could have just gone to the police and reported it. Instead, he messed up and tried to get rid of her body. I think what is crucial now is to find the person (or persons, Peter R. de Vries had his doubts on this point if it was one person or more) that helped Joran and see what he has to say.
Assuming that Joran's confession is legit, he really has no excuse for not dialing 911 when Natalee had her seizure (or whatever you want to call it). I cannot conceive of being in the same situation and deciding that the correct thing to do would be to call somebody to dispose of the body.

I'm sitting here shaking my head.

Okay, that was a figure of speech. Actually, I'm sitting here watching the super bowl. But you get the point.
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Old Monday, February 4th, 2008, 12:19 AM
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Default Re: Peter R. de Vries broadcast about Natalee Holloway case

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Originally Posted by charlierat View Post
Assuming that Joran's confession is legit, he really has no excuse for not dialing 911 when Natalee had her seizure (or whatever you want to call it). I cannot conceive of being in the same situation and deciding that the correct thing to do would be to call somebody to dispose of the body.

I'm sitting here shaking my head.

Okay, that was a figure of speech. Actuallysitting here watching the super bowl. But you get the point.

He was only 17 at the time. He must have panicked. But what a cold-blooded thing it was. As a mother of a young girl, that was horrible to watch!
I wish her parents peace.
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Old Monday, February 4th, 2008, 12:50 AM
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Default Re: Peter R. de Vries broadcast about Natalee Holloway case

The Dutch top-lawyer Gerard Spong expressed his doubts about the use of ‘evidence’ collected with a hidden camera

The question whether the evidence with a hidden camera is illegal and whether the Aruban justice is allowed to use that, is ‘contriving’.
He then refers to the Netherlands’ sentence by the European Court in Straatsburg on October 25, 2007 for the use of secret tape recordings.

“That was according to the European Court, a violation of the right on privacy.
This court decided that monitoring and recording conversations by a private person in the context of and on behalf of an official
investigation with the use of technical assistance of the police, is inadmissible.”

According to Spong, even without the assistance of the police, penetrating the personal life with visual technical means is also inadmissible.

“But if that illegal evidence is given to justice on a silver plate, it may, according to the verdict, still be used in some cases.
I am not certain whether this is also the case here, but it is indeed exiting.”


Besides, whether Van der Sloot had lied in his ‘confession’ or not, it still is not a confession about murder, says the lawyer.
According to Antillean law, a person that buries, hides, carries off, or takes off a body with the intention of concealing
the death, will be sentenced to a maximum of 6 months imprisonment or a fine of a maximum of 300 guilders.
It is not possible to keep the person in custody for such fact.

Spong is wondering why, after professional judicial advice of his father, Joran van der Sloot, while knowing that the criminal
consequences for him are so relatively small, has opted to remain silent in the Holloway-case.

Last edited by qlaval; Monday, February 4th, 2008 at 01:06 AM.
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Old Monday, February 4th, 2008, 04:59 AM
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Default Re: Peter R. de Vries broadcast about Natalee Holloway case

I sat and watched in amazement. I believe the show is going to be aired by ABC in the US today (monday).

What Joran says is a very good possibility of what happened to Natalee. However one can ask themselves why someone would try to dispose of a person, believed to be dead, but not sure about that, if her death was obviously accidental. He says he panicked, but had enough sense to walk to a payphone and not use his cellphone to call this friend.

He calls everyone idiots/stupid including his father. One thing does become very obvious: Joran has no respect for anyone (including his parents), he believes himself to be oh so very smart that they still did not manage to charge him with anything, he is trying to get money out of this either with his book or by sueing the Aruban Government (and anyone else he can think of).

If I was the Aruban government I would sue him.

Ps. the show did have very nice (air)shots of Aruba!
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Old Monday, February 4th, 2008, 05:59 AM
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Default Re: Peter R. de Vries broadcast about Natalee Holloway case

From: DAG, 04-02-2007 (www.dag.nl)

A Dutch newspaper had an interview with Joran's alleged helper Daury this monday morning. I'll give a short version of the story in English:

Daury denies all connection with the case. ‘Dat meen je niet. Nee, dat meen je niet. Echt? Maar dat klopt helemaal niet’, ('You don't mean that. No, you don't mean that. Really? But that is totally untrue') is the first reaction of Daury who is 21 years old. They even had SMS (text messaging) contact last saturday and Joran had told Daury nothing about the accusations. Daury was studying in Rotterdam (The Netherlands) at the time Natalee disappeared.

The newspaper got Daury's number from Joran because he felt guilty having named him. Before the program was broadcasted Joran had already retracted his statement and said that he has made up things. Peter R. de Vries has his doubts as well about the alleged help of Daury. At different times Joran mentions different ages and another last name for Daury. To the newspaper Joran has declared that he only knows one Daury and doesn't know his last name.

According to Daury, he has no connection with the case. He has known Joran since he was 15 through a school friend of Joran. 'We played football together. We weren't that close as friends. I never went out to Carlos 'n Charlies with Joran and his friends.' Daury left to study in The Netherlands in 2004 when he was 17 and has had little contact with Joran since then.

Actually, Daury says, I have gotten to know Joran only really well since december 2007, after Joran had been detained for the second time. They played poker together at the Palm Beach casino's. He says he has never asked him about Natalee.

Since 2004, Daury has lived in Rotterdam, The Netherlands, almost constantly. He has only been to Aruba for short holidays. On may 31, 2005, the day Natalee disappeared, he says that he was not in Aruba. At the end of december 2005 he went back to Aruba for the first time. When asked by the newspaper if Daury has a boat he says laughing: ‘Nee, natuurlijk niet’ ('No, ofcourse not').

To emphasize his claim that he was in The Netherlands all the time when Natalee disappeared Daury mentions the fact that he worked out at the gym almost every day, that he had a part time job and that he went to school during that time. This has not yet been verified by the newspaper. Daury: ‘Maar justitie kan dat allemaal natrekken. Dan weten ze meteen dat ik er niets mee te maken heb en dat Joran daarover heeft gelogen.’ ('But the justice department can verify all that. Then they will know that I have nothing to do with it and that Joran has lied about it').
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Old Monday, February 4th, 2008, 07:44 AM
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Default Re: Peter R. de Vries broadcast about Natalee Holloway case

coen, if that is accurate and they can prove he wasn't there, that is the most interesting information to come out of the case. does it show that joran was telling a stupid tale because he is too into his ego and wanted to brag or that he is a sociopath that doesn't care what he says or does to anyone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coen View Post
From: DAG, 04-02-2007 (www.dag.nl)

A Dutch newspaper had an interview with Joran's alleged helper Daury this monday morning. I'll give a short version of the story in English:

Daury denies all connection with the case. ‘Dat meen je niet. Nee, dat meen je niet. Echt? Maar dat klopt helemaal niet’, ('You don't mean that. No, you don't mean that. Really? But that is totally untrue') is the first reaction of Daury who is 21 years old. They even had SMS (text messaging) contact last saturday and Joran had told Daury nothing about the accusations. Daury was studying in Rotterdam (The Netherlands) at the time Natalee disappeared.

The newspaper got Daury's number from Joran because he felt guilty having named him. Before the program was broadcasted Joran had already retracted his statement and said that he has made up things. Peter R. de Vries has his doubts as well about the alleged help of Daury. At different times Joran mentions different ages and another last name for Daury. To the newspaper Joran has declared that he only knows one Daury and doesn't know his last name.

According to Daury, he has no connection with the case. He has known Joran since he was 15 through a school friend of Joran. 'We played football together. We weren't that close as friends. I never went out to Carlos 'n Charlies with Joran and his friends.' Daury left to study in The Netherlands in 2004 when he was 17 and has had little contact with Joran since then.

Actually, Daury says, I have gotten to know Joran only really well since december 2007, after Joran had been detained for the second time. They played poker together at the Palm Beach casino's. He says he has never asked him about Natalee.

Since 2004, Daury has lived in Rotterdam, The Netherlands, almost constantly. He has only been to Aruba for short holidays. On may 31, 2005, the day Natalee disappeared, he says that he was not in Aruba. At the end of december 2005 he went back to Aruba for the first time. When asked by the newspaper if Daury has a boat he says laughing: ‘Nee, natuurlijk niet’ ('No, ofcourse not').

To emphasize his claim that he was in The Netherlands all the time when Natalee disappeared Daury mentions the fact that he worked out at the gym almost every day, that he had a part time job and that he went to school during that time. This has not yet been verified by the newspaper. Daury: ‘Maar justitie kan dat allemaal natrekken. Dan weten ze meteen dat ik er niets mee te maken heb en dat Joran daarover heeft gelogen.’ ('But the justice department can verify all that. Then they will know that I have nothing to do with it and that Joran has lied about it').
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Old Monday, February 4th, 2008, 08:25 AM
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Default Re: Peter R. de Vries broadcast about Natalee Holloway case

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coen, if that is accurate and they can prove he wasn't there, that is the most interesting information to come out of the case. does it show that joran was telling a stupid tale because he is too into his ego and wanted to brag or that he is a sociopath that doesn't care what he says or does to anyone?
I don't know Sherry. I'm trying to stay unbiased here but the story that Joran told on hidden camera sounded quite convincing. The part about who helped him though was a bit shady. He mentioned different ages and a different last name for the person who helped him. Peter R. de Vries said on a radio interview this morning that he had some doubts about this part of Joran's story. So maybe, it wasn't this Daury after all who has helped Joran.
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Old Monday, February 4th, 2008, 08:51 AM
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Default Re: Peter R. de Vries broadcast about Natalee Holloway case

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I don't know Sherry. I'm trying to stay unbiased here but the story that Joran told on hidden camera sounded quite convincing. The part about who helped him though was a bit shady. He mentioned different ages and a different last name for the person who helped him. Peter R. de Vries said on a radio interview this morning that he had some doubts about this part of Joran's story. So maybe, it wasn't this Daury after all who has helped Joran.
Peter stated clearly during the report that he thought that there might be more people who had helped, but that he got the impression that Joran was protecting this other person. So perhaps Joran gave a false name knowing that this Daury would deny everything.

I don't know what to think of it all. Someone here stated that Joran had to be locked up no matter if this confession was true or not. Just to get him out of society. I tend to agree. I mean if the guy really did it and they can't g catch him, what will withhold him from doing (or trying) it again?
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Old Monday, February 4th, 2008, 09:07 AM
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Default Re: Peter R. de Vries broadcast about Natalee Holloway case

bon tarde sandra, Hoe gaat het met jou (one of the few dutch phrases i know, lol)

you are right and that is a sign of a sociopath. if he is one he may never kill again but he can with indifference if he chooses to.

as much as i really didn't want to believe he was guilty of anything, i am afraid that he has shown an ugly side of himself. let us hope that something can be done.

what is also sad is it has damaged an island i love with all of my heart. this boy may not only have 'disposed' of a body but almost disposed of tourism to country filled with decent people.

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Peter stated clearly during the report that he thought that there might be more people who had helped, but that he got the impression that Joran was protecting this other person. So perhaps Joran gave a false name knowing that this Daury would deny everything.

I don't know what to think of it all. Someone here stated that Joran had to be locked up no matter if this confession was true or not. Just to get him out of society. I tend to agree. I mean if the guy really did it and they can't g catch him, what will withhold him from doing (or trying) it again?
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Old Monday, February 4th, 2008, 09:40 AM
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Default Re: Peter R. de Vries broadcast about Natalee Holloway case

No arrest warrent for JvS

On friday a judge on Aruba has reopened the inquiries, but has refused the DA’s request for a new arrest warrent. The judge doesnt’t think the confession of JvS complies with the heavy demands for a new arrest. Becaus JvS has been incarcerated twice before, the judge thinks a renewed incarceration must comply with all demands.

Law enfocement on Aruba states that “this version of the facts could come colse to the truth” But states further that it wil weigh the confession careful and with caution. As it may seem to many that with the confession it may appear that the case is solved, it may not bee enough for a convition.

The former Aruban police chief Gerold Dompig thinks that the confession adds to the police inquiries. “We have a gap of 40 to 50 min after JvS has left Natalee on the beach, because we couldn’t track his cell phone there is a hole in the timeline.” Gerold Dompig lead the Holloway case until May 2006.

According to law expert Peter Tak, affiliated to the Radboud University in Nijmegen, it wil be difficult to get a convition based solely on the confession of JvS. Because Natalee’s body was never found, therefor it is impossible to confirm if Natalee was indeed death before she was dumped in the sea.

Source: Nu.nl
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Old Monday, February 4th, 2008, 09:51 AM
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Default Re: Peter R. de Vries broadcast about Natalee Holloway case

I'm going to wait until I see the "Americanized" version of de Vries' show tonight on ABC before I get real opinionated but I do have a few comments.

I understand the hesitancy of the Judge to issue another arrest warrant for Joran. Considering the posture this case is in, I don't think they can bring him in as a person of interest any more; I think they pretty much have to charge him and proceed with a prosecution at this point.

Also, it is axiomatic in criminal investigations that confessions alone are insufficient to cause convictions; they have to be corroborated by some other evidence. (Of course, there are exceptions to the rule.)
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Old Monday, February 4th, 2008, 09:52 AM
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Default Re: Peter R. de Vries broadcast about Natalee Holloway case

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tico, this is why i love you!
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Old Monday, February 4th, 2008, 10:43 AM
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Default Re: Peter R. de Vries broadcast about Natalee Holloway case

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I'm going to wait until I see the "Americanized" version of de Vries' show tonight on ABC before I get real opinionated but I do have a few comments.

I understand the hesitancy of the Judge to issue another arrest warrant for Joran. Considering the posture this case is in, I don't think they can bring him in as a person of interest any more; I think they pretty much have to charge him and proceed with a prosecution at this point.

Also, it is axiomatic in criminal investigations that confessions alone are insufficient to cause convictions; they have to be corroborated by some other evidence. (Of course, there are exceptions to the rule.)
I'm also curious to see the show. I hope they show it totally, not bits and pieces, because then they can change the way it was really said.
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Old Monday, February 4th, 2008, 11:03 AM
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Default Re: Peter R. de Vries broadcast about Natalee Holloway case

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I'm also curious to see the show. I hope they show it totally, not bits and pieces, because then they can change the way it was really said.
Well, I saw the complete program yesterday night. Still, I saw an 'interpretation' of the complete story by the program makers. You don't know what you don't know: I mean, the program makers could have left some information out that they thought was unimportant or vice versa.

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bon tarde sandra, Hoe gaat het met jou (one of the few dutch phrases i know, lol)
(...)
what is also sad is it has damaged an island i love with all of my heart. this boy may not only have 'disposed' of a body but almost disposed of tourism to country filled with decent people.
Sherry, you are very good at Dutch, you must have Dutch ancestry!

Concerning the last part of your post: That is the part I don't get. How can a whole country be blamed for the possible wrong doing of one person. I mean, there are good and bad persons everywhere. Sad as it is, even as we speak somewhere on this world people disappear, get killed or get hurt in another way. Most of the times we don't hear about it because it happens in a far away country, somewhere where the family doesn't have the means to start a full scale media offensive. Things must still be seen in this perspective IMHO.
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Old Monday, February 4th, 2008, 11:17 AM
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Wink Re: Peter R. de Vries broadcast about Natalee Holloway case

I doubt it will be just bits and pieces of the story tonight. ABC's 20/20 will air a 90 minute special on it from 9:30 to 11pm EST......and if what Joran says is basically true I feel sorry for the Kalpoe brothers and all they have gone thru cause it would seem their involvment ended when they dropped Joran and Natalie off at the beach.......this should be interesting TV tonight.
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Old Monday, February 4th, 2008, 11:22 AM
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Default Re: Peter R. de Vries broadcast about Natalee Holloway case

Coen.......good question, but unfortunately Aruba paid dearly in terms of tourism dollars and reputation.....and unfortunately when I tell people I used to live in Aruba there reference point to Aruba almost always seems to be "isn't that where that American girl went missing" Aruba is STILL feeling the effects of all of this and it is so unfair, as like you pointed out there is good and bad everywhere and people go missing all over the world daily.......it's just that the USA has bombarded with this story for over 2 years now......it's very very sad what is has done in terms of the reputation of an EXTREMELY safe and WONDERFUL island.......
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Old Monday, February 4th, 2008, 12:06 PM
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I Love Aruba Re: Peter R. de Vries broadcast about Natalee Holloway case

In years past, most Arubans I talked to couldn't and didn't believe that Natalee met her demise on Aruba. Now, the same people are so very angry, and hurt that, if true, Joran did much damage to this island in terms of money, and reputation. That's it from here.
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Old Monday, February 4th, 2008, 12:07 PM
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Default Re: Peter R. de Vries broadcast about Natalee Holloway case

Coen, just for my enlightenment, does Mr. deVries have a good reputation in The Netherlands? I suspect I know the answer.

It is sad that the whole island suffered. No one calls for travel bans to the US Virgin Islands and there are literally dozens of homicides there every year...some involve tourists.

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Old Monday, February 4th, 2008, 12:14 PM
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Default Re: Peter R. de Vries broadcast about Natalee Holloway case

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Coen, just for my enlightenment, does Mr. deVries have a good reputation in The Netherlands? I suspect I know the answer.

It is sad that the whole island suffered. No one calls for travel bans to the US Virgin Islands and there are literally dozens of homicides a year...some involve tourists.
Peter R. de Vries has a very good reputation in The Netherlands. And one that he has to uphold. So I don't think he would have reported this if he was not very sure of himself and the things he found out. He has solved crimes in the past where the police drew a blank (simply because he has more time and money available then the police does).
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Old Monday, February 4th, 2008, 12:19 PM
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Default Re: Peter R. de Vries broadcast about Natalee Holloway case

Thanks, Sandra.
I was willing to guess the opposite.
Thanks for setting me straight!
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Old Monday, February 4th, 2008, 12:36 PM
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Default Re: Peter R. de Vries broadcast about Natalee Holloway case

Breaking news: The Dutch Police searched two addresses in Arhem ( the town JvS lives, one of the adresses was Jorans own adress, the other the one of his grandma were he was stay the last days) at the request of the Aruban DA. Eye witnesses said the took computers.

Later on more........
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Old Monday, February 4th, 2008, 12:51 PM
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Default Re: Peter R. de Vries broadcast about Natalee Holloway case

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In years past, most Arubans I talked to couldn't and didn't believe that Natalee met her demise on Aruba. Now, the same people are so very angry, and hurt that, if true, Joran did much damage to this island in terms of money, and reputation. That's it from here.
Elaine: I am just sick to death about this. I will see the ABC program tonight here in the states, but I looked at clips that were available last night and got physically sick and ended up on a crying jag. I NEVER thought that Joran had anything to do with NH demise, nor did I think that he was part and parcel of any harm that came to her. I always did think though that he knew 'something' more than he ever revealed, but I honestly thought that perhaps he had helped her escape or runaway as part of a plan that she had hatched even before she came to Aruba and all this stuff that he was telling was just a smoke screen in order for her to have time to get away cleanly. That's why I am so devistated to see these clips of this arrogant person stating these things that happened and having no regard for his family, her family, the authorities and his Island homeland all which have suffered terribly over the last 2.8 years. It is unconscionable to me that someone would keep that information secret just to possibly keep themselves out of trouble and not give a mother some relief from her questioning of what happened to her child.

I don't always agree with Beth and I don't always agree with other majority participants in this case, but if someone has knowledge, no matter how little, about any person's disappearance, they need to speak up and tell what they know. Obviously if she died or went into a coma on her own, he would not have been charged with anything, but would have been rewarded I would think for attempting to help by calling 911 or whatever you call in Aruba in an emergency situation.

My heart breaks for Anita, this just has to be the most horrible thing to be going through. I hope they are well protected and can return to a normal life at some point, althought I don't know how that will be possible. My other hope is that Joran seeks help, he is in need of it very, very badly and I hope he takes full advantage of it.

I hope that people who are thinking of traveling to Aruba can see beyond this for what it is and not cut down on their travel there. I believe it is a wonderful place to visit with many many many good aspects on the island. I know those that I have personally corresponded with who live there are wonderful, well-rounded people with very creative minds and do wonderful things for many people. So may the friendliness of Aruba and its people show through in all of this.

Thank you too for a balanced spot to share thoughts and ideas and not bash anyone. Thanks to all who administer here. Moey in Minneapolis where it is snowing and expecting 3-5 inches of the white stuff today! Moey
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Old Monday, February 4th, 2008, 01:04 PM
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Default Re: Peter R. de Vries broadcast about Natalee Holloway case

coen, the dutch was taught to me by the lovely people who own the seabreeze on aruba. i wish my dutch was more extensive than that because i am sure that somewhere our family does have some dutch in our blood.

also, to answer your question about the last part of my earlier post, sadly, aruba was blamed from the beginning. i won't go into the details today but aruba has suffered a nightmare of its own for over 2 1/2 years. i as a moderator of an aruba board have gotten a taste of it. that taste is very bitter. to be honest, i can't believe the cruelty of my own countrymen to place blame on a country rather than a person. their behavior was sinful. sadly, it still is going on. i have received or read enough emails recently to let me know that it doesn't end here. it is a shame that no one listens to aruba's pain for it too has suffered.

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Well, I saw the complete program yesterday night. Still, I saw an 'interpretation' of the complete story by the program makers. You don't know what you don't know: I mean, the program makers could have left some information out that they thought was unimportant or vice versa.


Sherry, you are very good at Dutch, you must have Dutch ancestry!

Concerning the last part of your post: That is the part I don't get. How can a whole country be blamed for the possible wrong doing of one person. I mean, there are good and bad persons everywhere. Sad as it is, even as we speak somewhere on this world people disappear, get killed or get hurt in another way. Most of the times we don't hear about it because it happens in a far away country, somewhere where the family doesn't have the means to start a full scale media offensive. Things must still be seen in this perspective IMHO.
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Old Monday, February 4th, 2008, 01:42 PM
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Default Re: Peter R. de Vries broadcast about Natalee Holloway case

Very well said, Moey!

Thanks so much to our Dutch friends for keeping us informed!
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Old Monday, February 4th, 2008, 01:58 PM
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Very well said, Moey!

Thanks so much to our Dutch friends for keeping us informed!

Your welcome
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Old Monday, February 4th, 2008, 02:07 PM
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Default Re: Peter R. de Vries broadcast about Natalee Holloway case

I, like everyone, am sickened by this young man and his callousness and disregard for human life. Why would he dump a body he was not sure was dead instead of calling for help? As stated, he was "befriended" by a man who was supplying him with drugs, and Joran was no doubt selling them as well as using them. Do you think it is possible that he slipped her some type of drug, to make it easier to take advantage of her, that had a bad reaction due to an excessive amount of alcohol in her system?
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Old Monday, February 4th, 2008, 02:13 PM
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Default Re: Peter R. de Vries broadcast about Natalee Holloway case

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I, like everyone, am sickened by this young man and his callousness and disregard for human life. Why would he dump a body he was not sure was dead instead of calling for help? As stated, he was "befriended" by a man who was supplying him with drugs, and Joran was no doubt selling them as well as using them. Do you think it is possible that he slipped her some type of drug, to make it easier to take advantage of her, that had a bad reaction due to an excessive amount of alcohol in her system?
I don't know what he may or may not have done beyond what he talked about in many statements. I would guess anything is possible, but unfortunately it seems as though any forensic evidence is now gone or unavailable and we will never know -- unless whomever he called is interrogated and confesses to what really happened and all the hows and whys. Moey
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Old Monday, February 4th, 2008, 03:35 PM
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Default Re: Peter R. de Vries broadcast about Natalee Holloway case

Moey; although I have believe from the begining that Joran knew what had happened to Natalie, I totally agree with the rest of your post, especially the part that he probably wouldn't have been charged with a crime if he had simply sought out help for Natalie.......what a horrific statement Joran made, cause now poor Beth has to live with all the what if's.......what if she was only unconscious and could have lived if medical help had been sought.......this is all so VERY VERY sad and tragic. And I don't care if Joran was 17 or 70....even a 17 year old should know enough to call for help unless he is just a stone cold sociopath, which I think Joran is showing himself to be........this really makes my heart ache, all this news has to be incredibly hard for the parents on both ends of this case, the Twitty's and Van Der Sloot's.......
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Old Monday, February 4th, 2008, 03:49 PM
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Default Re: Peter R. de Vries broadcast about Natalee Holloway case

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In years past, most Arubans I talked to couldn't and didn't believe that Natalee met her demise on Aruba. Now, the same people are so very angry, and hurt that, if true, Joran did much damage to this island in terms of money, and reputation. That's it from here.
Elaine ~ What the people of Aruba want to realize, is those of us that know the island and the people of the island, will always come back..it's those that have never been to the island, that they will have to gain their trust.
Tico & Miss Judy
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Old Monday, February 4th, 2008, 05:05 PM
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Default Re: Peter R. de Vries broadcast about Natalee Holloway case

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Moey; although I have believe from the begining that Joran knew what had happened to Natalie, I totally agree with the rest of your post, especially the part that he probably wouldn't have been charged with a crime if he had simply sought out help for Natalie.......what a horrific statement Joran made, cause now poor Beth has to live with all the what if's.......what if she was only unconscious and could have lived if medical help had been sought.......this is all so VERY VERY sad and tragic. And I don't care if Joran was 17 or 70....even a 17 year old should know enough to call for help unless he is just a stone cold sociopath, which I think Joran is showing himself to be........this really makes my heart ache, all this news has to be incredibly hard for the parents on both ends of this case, the Twitty's and Van Der Sloot's.......
Seashell: Yes, I always believed he 'knew' more than he said, but I was of the opinion for most of the time that NH perhaps ran away and he was instrumental in helping her do that and that was the 'something' that he knew and wasn't talking about. I never in a million years thought that it would be something like this. And I'm not saying that the DeVries tape is 100% correct, I have no idea about that, but the blanket denial before the tape ever came out was suspicious to me. There was a lot of talk around that this tape was made in a casino -- imagine my surprise when I learned that it was made in a car!

I am very very sorry for the Vandersloot family and the Holloway family. I don't always agree with what Beth has said/done, but I sympathize with her as a mother and agree that the what if's would drive me crazy. Even children as young as 3 to 4 have made 911 calls to help their mothers who have been incapacitated, if those little kids know enough to call 911, then a 17 or 18 year old certainly would know to do it. It is a sad, sad case, that's for sure. Moey
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