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Old Sunday, March 15th, 2009, 08:48 PM
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I Love Aruba The Woes of Our Economy

Several friends and I had a discussion today about today's economy... where it's headed, how long it'll take to get back on track, how we can get back on track, and who's responsibile for the dire straights we're in.

I'd be interested on hearing your take and opinion.
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Old Sunday, March 15th, 2009, 09:15 PM
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Unhappy Re: The Woes of Our Economy

I wanted to add that I'm a sneeze away from retirement. Even if I had seriously considered it, it wouldn't and couldn't happen now. I'm sure many other are in the same boat.
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Old Sunday, March 15th, 2009, 09:40 PM
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Default Re: The Woes of Our Economy

elaine, that boat started with us with our own personal madoff style broker. we found out about it after the statute of limitations was up. funny how the checks kept coming until then. so after selling our shop and expecting retirement murray is working a retirement job.

so what caused this? the greed of the world. murray has a saying about politics that i always agreed on. in the good old days the average politician stole 10 cents on the dollar and didn't get caught. now they steal 90 cents and still expect to get away with it. we've caught them yet they still don't get it.

i have a bunch more i would like to say but i already suffer insomnia. i'll save the rest for a day when i need to stay up all night, lol.

next person please?

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I wanted to add that I'm a sneeze away from retirement. Even if I had seriously considered it, it wouldn't and couldn't happen now. I'm sure many other are in the same boat.
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Old Monday, March 16th, 2009, 12:09 PM
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Default Re: The Woes of Our Economy

A perspective from a metro-New Yorker:

1) The real estate market was out of hand. Realtors (and my cousin was one) sold homes to people w/o the proper income. Bank checks were flimsy and in some cases a mere $5,000 was put down. It was a matter of time before these people would foreclose. The average price home here was $525,000 at one point - for a simple 3 BR. Property taxes average $9,000 per year. You do the math.

2) The Wall Street greed was BAD. They also were out of control due to lack of regulation.

3) The Iraq War sucked billions out of our economy. What a waste!
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Old Monday, March 16th, 2009, 01:27 PM
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Default Re: The Woes of Our Economy

Like you Elaine, I was "hoping" to retire by the age of 70. But today, I am resigned to the fact that I will be forced to work until I die, those are now the facts for millions of people. Val lost her job last October and still hasn't found any work in her field. We are getting by, but if something doesn't happen soon, we could be in trouble. We have our finances under control, but the prices of everything seem to be rising faster then my income.

IMHO, "greed" was the factor for a majority of the problems that are happening today. We will not work our way out of this financial mess until the people responsible for creating it have been releived of their duties. Why in the world would this government "give" AIG billions of dollars and let them "give" our money out in bonuses? I receive a bonus if, and only if, we make a profit and I have done an excellent job to help us become profitable.

We are not headed in the right direction and I cannot see this economy reversing its trend for another two or more years. There needs to be wholesale changes in Washington and the only way that will happen is if people vote the current legislators out of office during the next two elections. Then, and only then, will elected officials know that we, their constituents, are fed up with the garbage that continues to hurt the American people and they are there to do what is right for this country and not their wallets.

And now I have to finish my rant because it is time to go back to work!!
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Old Monday, March 16th, 2009, 01:31 PM
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Default Re: The Woes of Our Economy

Quote:
Originally Posted by donnie View Post
Like you Elaine, I was "hoping" to retire by the age of 70. .
Well, I'm lotsa sneezes away from that, donnie. lol
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Old Monday, March 16th, 2009, 01:41 PM
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Default Re: The Woes of Our Economy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elaine S View Post
Several friends and I had a discussion today about today's economy... where it's headed, how long it'll take to get back on track, how we can get back on track, and who's responsibile for the dire straights we're in.

I'd be interested on hearing your take and opinion.
A good question. As for some answers
Where it is headed ? That is anybodys guess. Unless you have lived during the age of the Wall Street crash and the great depression from the early 30's No one of this age has experienced anything like this global recession. Now I am only 52 years young and even during the gas shortages of the 70's and the recession of the early 80's I have seen nothing like this in my lifetime.

How long will it Last till the economy rebounds back ?. My best guess depending on world situations probably 2 years at the earliest maybe 2010- 2011 spring of 2011 till you see major improvments in the economy.

How to get back on track have faith in the system It has bounced back many times in the past and it will again.

Now this last question . I have to take a laugh at who is to blame for this mess ?.

As Most who follow American politics know We Have 2 Major parties the Democrats and the Republicans. And both like to say that it is the other parties fault But unlike another board that seems to relish saying things bad about the current adminstration because they belong to the other party and they forgot that they lost the Last election and still can't believe it. since I voted for the current party in power and would do so again Let me say this.

Both sides have an equal blame in this mess and really that is as political as I want to get here. Putting the blame on one party or on one person No it takes a whole lot of people to create this mess from both sides and it has been building for a while at least 9 years around the end of the clinton adminstration was when the Tech bubble started to burst and those investors who put their money into tech stocks pulled out of those and started putting money into investment firms who were putting it into banks that invested it into real estate and sub prime lending firms.




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Old Monday, March 16th, 2009, 01:59 PM
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Default Re: The Woes of Our Economy

I totally agree Ron. It was never one party that put us here and it will not be one party that gets us out of this mess. we are "all" in it together. We may not like it but we have to deal with it. I am just tired of hearing how people are getting bonuses while others can barely buy enough to feed their families.

As Americans, we have to show the world that we are going to meet our obligations and move toward a better future. I pray that my daughter and your children will not have this mess to deal with, but I think they are going to bear the brunt of it. I guess what I am saying is, lets quit blaming everyone and lets get this thing fixed. And lets get it fixed for the betterment of all.
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Old Monday, March 16th, 2009, 02:01 PM
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Default Re: The Woes of Our Economy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elaine S View Post
Well, I'm lotsa sneezes away from that, donnie. lol
I know you are Elaine, I just wanted to say that retirement is now out of my picture as well as most people that are my age and were "hoping" to someday retire.
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Old Monday, March 16th, 2009, 02:01 PM
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Default Re: The Woes of Our Economy

amen ron! exactly what i think. you know how i voted and would vote again today but i don't think this is party created. it is greed created. greed doesn't ask who's party you belong to.

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Both sides have an equal blame in this mess and really that is as political as I want to get here. Putting the blame on one party or on one person No it takes a whole lot of people to create this mess from both sides and it has been building for a while at least 9 years around the end of the clinton adminstration was when the Tech bubble started to burst and those investors who put their money into tech stocks pulled out of those and started putting money into investment firms who were putting it into banks that invested it into real estate and sub prime lending firms.




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Old Monday, March 16th, 2009, 02:12 PM
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Default Re: The Woes of Our Economy

You all have basically said what I did in my conversation/debate. How can anyone possibly point the finger of blame on one party, one person, one event??

The situation that we're in didn't manifest itself "all of a sudden," and isn't going to go away "all of a sudden," either.

I must admit that I'm listening more to what people in positions of bringing about change are saying.. something I didn't religiously do before. I'm holding them accountable for their words.... and, when it comes time to grade them with my vote, I'll be that much wiser.
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Old Monday, March 16th, 2009, 04:53 PM
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Default Re: The Woes of Our Economy

Madoff, Bush, greedy bankers, more greedy bankers, huge bonusses for losers, huge bonusses to get rid of losers and did I mention greedy bankers?
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Old Monday, March 16th, 2009, 05:52 PM
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Default Re: The Woes of Our Economy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandra View Post
Madoff, Bush, greedy bankers, more greedy bankers, huge bonusses for losers, huge bonusses to get rid of losers and did I mention greedy bankers?
Love it!!!!
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Old Monday, March 16th, 2009, 08:41 PM
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Default Re: The Woes of Our Economy

Sandra, I heartily concur!! It will turn around ---- I have to hang on to that belief or I'll go mad. It has taken me all my working years to accumulate what I 'HAD' and now that has diminished. I listen to talk radio along with all the financial reporters. Hopefully I will live long enough to see it return to what it was before this (and all those s.o.b's) came about.
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Old Monday, March 16th, 2009, 08:44 PM
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Default Re: The Woes of Our Economy

I had been retired, and now am back to work-----not because I want to be----because I have to. c'est la vie
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Old Monday, March 16th, 2009, 10:49 PM
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Default Re: The Woes of Our Economy

[quote=Ron B;87564]A good question. As for some answers
Where it is headed ? That is anybodys guess. Unless you have lived during the age of the Wall Street crash and the great depression from the early 30's No one of this age has experienced anything like this global recession. Now I am only 52 years young and even during the gas shortages of the 70's and the recession of the early 80's I have seen nothing like this in my lifetime.

How long will it Last till the economy rebounds back ?. My best guess depending on world situations probably 2 years at the earliest maybe 2010- 2011 spring of 2011 till you see major improvments in the economy.

How to get back on track have faith in the system It has bounced back many times in the past and it will again.

Now this last question . I have to take a laugh at who is to blame for this mess ?.

As Most who follow American politics know We Have 2 Major parties the Democrats and the Republicans. And both like to say that it is the other parties fault But unlike another board that seems to relish saying things bad about the current adminstration because they belong to the other party and they forgot that they lost the Last election and still can't believe it. since I voted for the current party in power and would do so again Let me say this.

Both sides have an equal blame in this mess and really that is as political as I want to get here. Putting the blame on one party or on one person No it takes a whole lot of people to create this mess from both sides and it has been building for a while at least 9 years around the end of the clinton adminstration was when the Tech bubble started to burst and those investors who put their money into tech stocks pulled out of those and started putting money into investment firms who were putting it into banks that invested it into real estate and sub prime lending firms.(quote)


what everyone needs to re
member is that
this country of 300 million is run by exactly 545 people. 435 congressmen, 100 senators, 9 supreme court justices and 1 president. We elect all but 9 of them, so we need to get rid of the ones that are not doing their/our job. We need some people in there with th guts to make the hard decisions. Throwing money at these problems will not solve them. Bailing out failed companies because they are "too big" to fail will not solve the problem. Let these companies fail, others with better management will eventualy take their place. They always do. Yes, it will take time, but the end result will be a stable economy. I would like to see about 2/3 of the congress replaced every election until we have some senators and congressmen with some guts that wont be the paid lackys of lobbyists and special interest groups.
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Old Tuesday, March 17th, 2009, 12:04 AM
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Default Re: The Woes of Our Economy

As someone who does not live in the U.S., but travels to the U.S frequently and deals with business and individuals in the U.S on a daily basis, I am encouraged to see this level of dialogue. I have been traveling to, and dealing with folks in America since 1972. I have dealt with U.S. firms in both good and bad times. I believe there is a phenomenal resilience inbreed into all Americans.

This level of discussion on this board shows that you will break through this situation. I think it will soon come down to some brave souls saying "To hell with it" and going ahead with plans to buy, invest and move ahead. If everyone sits back and awaits a government response, then the recession/depression is going to take much longer to depart. Even those small purchases you maybe delaying affect a worker somewhere. I firmly believe that the solution lies in the hands of the majority, and all small purchases of goods and services add up and will rebuild some confidence in th U.S.A.

At least this is my profound hope. I do not think that sitting around and waiting for the government to "save" everyone is the answer. Yes, there are big deficits, but really where did the money go?? If it really existed, it should be traceable. Maybe it was all a paper tiger!! When looking at real estate values and property value increases, one has to ask the question as to why a property increased dramatically in value and only on paper. Was there anything substantive to support these increases?

I do not want to downplay the seriousness of the current situation, but feel that if we all sit around waiting for the cure from someone else, then this malaise will continue for a longer period. I firmly believe that instead of accepting fear and loss in investments, that if people can move forward with some confidence ( in other words...take the money out from under the mattress and live "normally"), then we can all contribute to ending this mess.

Respectfully

A
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Old Tuesday, March 17th, 2009, 04:29 PM
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Default Re: The Woes of Our Economy

Quote:
Originally Posted by aquaman View Post
As someone who does not live in the U.S., but travels to the U.S frequently and deals with business and individuals in the U.S on a daily basis, I am encouraged to see this level of dialogue. I have been traveling to, and dealing with folks in America since 1972. I have dealt with U.S. firms in both good and bad times. I believe there is a phenomenal resilience inbreed into all Americans.

This level of discussion on this board shows that you will break through this situation. I think it will soon come down to some brave souls saying "To hell with it" and going ahead with plans to buy, invest and move ahead. If everyone sits back and awaits a government response, then the recession/depression is going to take much longer to depart. Even those small purchases you maybe delaying affect a worker somewhere. I firmly believe that the solution lies in the hands of the majority, and all small purchases of goods and services add up and will rebuild some confidence in th U.S.A.

At least this is my profound hope. I do not think that sitting around and waiting for the government to "save" everyone is the answer. Yes, there are big deficits, but really where did the money go?? If it really existed, it should be traceable. Maybe it was all a paper tiger!! When looking at real estate values and property value increases, one has to ask the question as to why a property increased dramatically in value and only on paper. Was there anything substantive to support these increases?

I do not want to downplay the seriousness of the current situation, but feel that if we all sit around waiting for the cure from someone else, then this malaise will continue for a longer period. I firmly believe that instead of accepting fear and loss in investments, that if people can move forward with some confidence ( in other words...take the money out from under the mattress and live "normally"), then we can all contribute to ending this mess.

Respectfully

A


Well Aquaman. Let me say that in regards to this Aruba Board. This Board is the exception to the rule. I have seen this topic brought up on other boards and trust me on this It is No where near as nice and respectful on other sites as it is here . And part of this I give credit to Sherry and the other moderators.

You know you walk into a Hornets Nest when you bring up the subject of American Politics on any board . As you can imagine there are some Die Hard Democrats on here and Die Hard Republicans Plus Independents and others of different prespectives. On some of the other boards It can and has gotten very heated. I have seen where people who talked real nice and friendly to each other wanting to meet and so forth when they start discussing politics that all changes Most of it because of the passion that each feels for their canadiate and their party. Sometimes Rationale takes a backseat. And I can admit that I have been part of that Irrationality on other boards. But the tone was set Years ago on this board that American politics can be discussed but when it starts to get out of hand or degenerate into insults then it gets deleted the whole thread.

Greed is part of the Human condition. It has been around Throughout History and will not change anytime soon. People Like Bernie Madoff, Ken Lay,Bernie Ebbers , John Thule , Michael Millken from the 80's they got the lust of free and easy money and no one to watch as they either looted their companies assets till Bankruptcy or till they went out of business or used investors money to furnish their Luxurious Lifestyles.The sin of greed crosses all racial , religious, and cultural nationalities.


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Last edited by Ron B; Tuesday, March 17th, 2009 at 11:06 PM.
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Old Tuesday, March 17th, 2009, 06:09 PM
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I Love Aruba Re: The Woes of Our Economy

Good post, Ron. Being one of the moderators, I wasn't at all concerned about starting this thread. I honestly believe one doesn't have to be a rocket scientist to know that this problem we're faced with isn't a "one party" problem. It took time to reach the depths we're in, and "everyone" has to share in how we got here regardless of their party affiliation.

I started a blog prior to the election for opinions/discussions, and guess what?? Strangely enough, other than the same few, no one was interested!

You have no idea how happy I am to see people speaking out now in this thread.
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Old Wednesday, March 18th, 2009, 04:33 PM
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Default Re: The Woes of Our Economy

ok, someone sent this to me today. please forgive the 'f' bomb in it but i think it sort of relates to this. if your are sensitive to that word, this youtube is not for you.

YouTube - DFH
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Old Thursday, March 19th, 2009, 08:27 AM
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Default Re: The Woes of Our Economy

Perfect sherry!!

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ok, someone sent this to me today. please forgive the 'f' bomb in it but i think it sort of relates to this. if your are sensitive to that word, this youtube is not for you.

YouTube - DFH
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