New TSA requirements

[LearJet9]

We are not leaving for 5 weeks however.... with the Delta developments we are curious what is going to happen with the new and improved security measures that I keep hearing rumors about? Hopefully someone who travels this week will give us an update. Wondering if we need to book a bench in the security waiting area.

Donna & Bill

[Elaine S]

Hi Donna and Bill!!

I'm wondering the same thing! My flight's at 7:55 AM. Guess I should get there the night before to be first in line!!

Security dropped the ball big time all around! I haven't been escorted to the bathroom since I was in kindergarten. Guess I'll have to hold it in or go lots of times before I have to sit in my seat, and not move for the last hour of the trip sans anything on my lap!

I'm all for safety.... but, this is a little ridiculous. What happens the first three and a half hours of the trip - we're safer then we are the last hour?
Absurd!

The problem isn't the traveling public. It's those who had a job to do, and didn't do it!

Originally Posted by LearJet9

We are not leaving for 5 weeks however.... with the Delta developments we are curious what is going to happen with the new and improved security measures that I keep hearing rumors about? Hopefully someone who travels this week will give us an update. Wondering if we need to book a bench in the security waiting area.

Donna & Bill

[dwippies]

your last line says it all elaine. do you realize that you might not be able to listen to your ipod the last hour of the flight but since 2007 you can carry matches again? i suppose that music is more dangerous than fire. no offense to smokers since i was one for many years and you know i'm not one of those nasty ex smokers but what the hell is wrong with tsa?

some of you know that we flew the day before and 3 days after the shoe bomber and about 6 hours after that lovely incident in london that stopped all liquids from carry on bags. we got to see the fiasco and the idiocy of tsa at it's finest. one flight we were given the extra search because the examiner told us we looked like terrorists. you've all seen pictures of us. terrorists? after that shoe bomber thing we sat at the gate and they asked for volunteers for the random search. sure, i'm a terrorist so i volunteer to have you search me and my possessions.

tsa locks? why waste your money? they have broken ours open when they have keys for them, stolen them or accidentally misplaced them, searched our bags and left little notes to let us know that they searched them but not mentioned that they broke the bags themselves.

after the shoe bomber the lines went on for hours while we all removed our shoes except for those they forgot to ask. after london, they changed the rules so many times that day that they had passengers in tears ('if you want to get on that plane you will throw your baby's bottle in that trash can').

we've all watched the hidden camera tests of the agents. they fail constantly. do your jobs and don't pick the safe bet for the search. the failing is not in the public, it is the tsa not doing what it needs to do.

Originally Posted by Elaine S

Hi Donna and Bill!!

I'm wondering the same thing! My flight's at 7:55 AM. Guess I should get there the night before to be first in line!!

Security dropped the ball big time all around! I haven't been escorted to the bathroom since I was in kindergarten. Guess I'll have to hold it in or go lots of times before I have to sit in my seat, and not move for the last hour of the trip sans anything on my lap!

I'm all for safety.... but, this is a little ridiculous. What happens the first three and a half hours of the trip - we're safer then we are the last hour?
Absurd!

The problem isn't the traveling public. It's those who had a job to do, and didn't do it!

[ArubaMary]

Hi all,
The story of the Delta absurdity continues to grow. Everyone dropped the ball on this one. Just hearing of how his parents went to the authorities to say their son was someone who definitely needed watching. With that, he should have been banned from flying. No, he was put on a different list and was allowed to fly. Now we will all pay the price. I guess with the type of explosive he used it is more effective shortly before landing. That is why we now will have to be accompanied to the lavatory. You know the feeling when someone tells you you cannot do something----ya, you want or need to do it more so. I also recall the times when you couldn't bring matches, etc.----there I was in the huge line at immigration-----the x-ray showed matches in my carry-on. I had picked up matches at a few restaurants for souvenirs and totally forgot the new rule. I had to take everything out of the bag till I found the matchbooks. What a mess!!! Now I can bring as many matches as I want but will be patted down for explosives. I'm all for precautions but let them do their jobs right before they add on to what we already have. I am anxious to hear more about the additions to TSA prior to having to get to the airport in the middle of the night. Please keep us updated.

[lizzardo]

A lot of my friends left the island for Christmas and are coming in this
week for New Years. It's a busy time at the Aruba Airport for sure.
I will post experiences as I get them. I have a friend who we're
picking up today coming in from Newark. A lot of people are
not looking forward to the 'extra' measures.

It sounds like what they are doing isn't exactly clear but I have
heard that the last hour of the flight you must remain seated.
If you have to go to the bathroom, you can but must be escorted.
During the last hour you are not allowed to have anything on your
lap. Also electronic device use will be limited. I have heard but
not confirmed for myself that luggage (both kinds) are subject to
full hand searches. We were in Mexico after the shoe bomber and
EVERYTHING was hand searched. A complete mess.

Here is the TSA's announcement - but pretty unclear on what
they are doing.

TSA: TSA Guidance for Passengers on Heightened Security Measures in Place Following Dec. 25 Incident

[dwippies]

today i heard on the news that they relaxed some of the new rules. it's like anything else. if tsa actually followed it's own rules, all would be a lot safer. they don't need to create new ones just stop sitting on their behinds ignoring their jobs.

Originally Posted by lizzardo

A lot of my friends left the island for Christmas and are coming in this
week for New Years. It's a busy time at the Aruba Airport for sure.
I will post experiences as I get them. I have a friend who we're
picking up today coming in from Newark. A lot of people are
not looking forward to the 'extra' measures.

It sounds like what they are doing isn't exactly clear but I have
heard that the last hour of the flight you must remain seated.
If you have to go to the bathroom, you can but must be escorted.
During the last hour you are not allowed to have anything on your
lap. Also electronic device use will be limited. I have heard but
not confirmed for myself that luggage (both kinds) are subject to
full hand searches. We were in Mexico after the shoe bomber and
EVERYTHING was hand searched. A complete mess.

Here is the TSA's announcement - but pretty unclear on what
they are doing.

TSA: TSA Guidance for Passengers on Heightened Security Measures in Place Following Dec. 25 Incident

[lizzardo]

Not to start a 'political' argument but there has been no
head for the TSA since Obamo took office. DeMint (R)
has blocked all nominations.

[dwippies]

unfortunately we are dealing with government and they are too busy battling each other to care about us mere mortals.

Originally Posted by lizzardo

Not to start a 'political' argument but there has been no
head for the TSA since Obama took office. DeMint (R)
has blocked all nominations.

[Elaine S]

Watching the pundits last night, this is once again being made into a political issue. It's not about politics; it's about people who didn't do the jobs they were hired to do!

TSA had rules in place.... the rules apparently weren't followed! Now we have some new rules that, to my mind, make absolutely no sense.

Heads should roll, and all of those responsible "in every capacity" who allowed this person to board an airplane to the US that easily should be fired immediately. One way ticket ~ cash payment ~ no luggage... how red should a flag be? The h-e-l-l with this political correctness as far as I'm concerned!

So the new rule is - if people on the ground don't do their jobs properly in keeping someone from boarding an aircraft who's a threat, and shouldn't have been on the aircraft to begin with... the flight attendants, and passengers are now responsible to be police in the air? Absolutely, positively ridiculous!

[LearJet9]

Elaine you are 100% correct. >IF< the TSA agents did their job this would never have been an issue. But they didn't, and there is no indication that the agents are going to magically become smarter. I have been in the Law Enforcement community for over 25 years and have been told 1st hand the training is actually sufficient, maybe even good. The problem appears to be the trainee's. Those applying and being hired by the TSA are.... well let's just say the only other job they qualify for is at McDonalds.

I am certain there are many excellent TSA agents, and to them I say thank you for doing a good job. To the other 80% I say; If you're hired at McDonalds you get 50% off meals!! Interested??

Bill

[seashelldiver]

Hey guys......TSA wasn't the ones at fault. They are located here in the USA, not in Nigeria where the plane originated from nor in Amsterdam as the connection point. The idiots at the Nigerian airport broke all immigration protocol when they allowed him to fly to the USA with a one way ticket, foreigners are supposed to be denied onto a US bound plane without a return ticket back to their origin......hello suicide bomber why would I need a return ticket right, cause he wasn't coming back....first alarms should have gone off there (Elaine you are so correct)and also for the purpose of them not staying in the USA indefinitely, but we all know they do stay (12 million illegal immigrants and counting)....Secondly, until they start using full body scanners in every airport worldwide this will continue to happen and the US is good at making public all our weaknesses which doesn't help a thing. No country including the USA wants to spend the money for the full body scanners as they are extremely expensive, but if this country (and the world) wants to be safe there is no other way around this need for them. Now all the activists should start rearing their heads crying invasion of privacy.....yeah, I don't want all my lumps bumps and jelly rolls to be viewed on screen, but I will certainly submit to the scanners for the sake of my LIFE !!!!!

The bigger question is "How do we get the other nations to do their due diligence"? Cause they are the ones who put our lives at risk here.......and we can do without Janet Napolitano who was first quoted as saying the "system worked" first off what system is she referring to and why are pilots who were in the air on Christmas day at the time of the incident say they DID NOT recieve ANY NOTIFICATION of any incident occurring while all this was going on.....Lawd have mercy !!!

As a fomer U.S. Immigration Inspector this all scares me cayuse we have to rely on other countries to do their part and clearly they are not !!!!

[Kathy from Ohio]

Seashelldiver is absolutely correct. Our gov't. knew about this guy, but didn't act on it. This country needs to get a wake up call. I guess they've forgotten about 9-11. One other thing that I heard was the bomber did not have a passport in addition to everything else. Why would they let him on the plane without a passport? It's a little ridiculous to expect passengers to police the plane. It's just lucky that the bomb didn't detonate as it was intended. I heard that now they are going to have full body scanners on any flights coming into the US. We have to stop being worried about being "politically correct" and do what we need to do to keep our citizens safe. And, some will say, it's a privacy issue. I say, don't fly then. It's your choice.

[Elaine S]

Hi Claudia!! Long time "no see."

Thanks for your imput since you know procedures having been in the "business."

I'm all for anything that will make us safer when flying, however, when TSA or an airline announces something like sitting in your seat for the last hour; having nothing on your lap, and being escorted to the bathroom, I don't see that as anything but being absurd! The root cause is the people on the ground doing their jobs. If they did their jobs, no one would enter any aircraft with ammunition of any kind that has the ability to blow up an airplane.

While this person boarded in Nigeria, and then again in Amsterdam, due diligence was not put in place by our US intelligence agencies, and these agencies have to take responsibility in what could have happened by not sharing that intelligence. As I said earlier, I'm sick of this political correctness, and not offending anyone. When the lives of hundreds of thousands of people are at stake, anything and everything should be done to assure their safety when flying. We simply got lucky this time.

[seashelldiver]

Elaine....thank you, it's been awhile. I think I am one of the last working stiffs in Michigan so I keep my nose to the grindstone. Everyoneis off today so I am taking a leap of faith and spending some time with my favorite Aruban family......

Onward......Elaine, you are so perfectly correct.....the gov't just announced that they are sending 150 full body scanners out to US airports (cause we can only police the USA).....what a crock of bullshit, all this to make the average joe blow feel like the Gov't is doing SOMETHING.....now tell me, how are these full body scanners going to stop ANYONE from blowing up the airplane like this fool tried to do BEFORE ever touching US soil......where are these full body scanners going to help us in that respect.....DUH !!!

I stand by my words...the U.S. Gov't is CRAZY !!!!

[dwippies]

it is very simple. i still say no one is doing their jobs. no offense to tsa but they are not trained properly and just join into the government insanity. they expect us to give up our rights but they don't expect to have to do their jobs. sorry claudia, i know you did your job well since i witnessed it several times but you know that we are failing at our responsibilities now and the other countries are certainly not helping us.

Originally Posted by seashelldiver

Elaine....thank you, it's been awhile. I think I am one of the last working stiffs in Michigan so I keep my nose to the grindstone. Everyoneis off today so I am taking a leap of faith and spending some time with my favorite Aruban family......

Onward......Elaine, you are so perfectly correct.....the gov't just announced that they are sending 150 full body scanners out to US airports (cause we can only police the USA).....what a crock of bullshit, all this to make the average joe blow feel like the Gov't is doing SOMETHING.....now tell me, how are these full body scanners going to stop ANYONE from blowing up the airplane like this fool tried to do BEFORE ever touching US soil......where are these full body scanners going to help us in that respect.....DUH !!!

I stand by my words...the U.S. Gov't is CRAZY !!!!

[TomR]

Originally Posted by seashelldiver

the gov't just announced that they are sending 150 full body scanners out to US airports (cause we can only police the USA).....what a crock of bullshit, all this to make the average joe blow feel like the Gov't is doing SOMETHING.....now tell me, how are these full body scanners going to stop ANYONE from blowing up the airplane like this fool tried to do BEFORE ever touching US soil......where are these full body scanners going to help us in that respect.....DUH !!!

I stand by my words...the U.S. Gov't is CRAZY !!!!

I sure don't understand that thinking. Would you feel better if the U.S. Government did not send any full body scanners to our airports? I'd feel a lot better if the Government sent out 1,500 or more scanners so that every airport in this country was fully covered. It is possible you know that a terrorist could board a plane in one of our airports. Oh wait, they already did that, didn't they?

[Kathy from Ohio]

Originally Posted by seashelldiver

Elaine....thank you, it's been awhile. I think I am one of the last working stiffs in Michigan so I keep my nose to the grindstone. Everyoneis off today so I am taking a leap of faith and spending some time with my favorite Aruban family......

Onward......Elaine, you are so perfectly correct.....the gov't just announced that they are sending 150 full body scanners out to US airports (cause we can only police the USA).....what a crock of bullshit, all this to make the average joe blow feel like the Gov't is doing SOMETHING.....now tell me, how are these full body scanners going to stop ANYONE from blowing up the airplane like this fool tried to do BEFORE ever touching US soil......where are these full body scanners going to help us in that respect.....DUH !!!

I stand by my words...the U.S. Gov't is CRAZY !!!!

I'm pretty sure I saw on one of the news stations since this incident that other countries, specifically the Netherlands, have now got body scanners for all outbound flights to the US. Long overdue. Hopefully, they will use them both for incoming flights to US, and any domestic flights.

[seashelldiver]

Sherry,
Your so correct on TSA Agents......they attend a small amount of initial training and then attend seminars from there on out.....(U.S. Immigration Inspectors/Customs Agent) 16 weeks at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Academy, 8 hours a day and the training was no joke, I'm still amazed I suvived it !!!!LOL

Kathy, I heard the same thing about the Netherlands, but until we get EVERY international airport worldwide to follow suit, the terrorists will just depart from another small country and head our way once again.....the shoe bomber and now this yo-yo, sooner or later one of these idiots will be successful, hopefully not !!!!

Elaine S is still on the right track.....Daddy calls the CIA and reports his son has disowned the family and is in Yemen with a terrorist cell and some idiot CIA Agent deep sixed that intel.......that is how this attack was missed. Next time there might not be a daddy making a phone call.....YIKES !

[dwippies]

that's the scariest part. a father is so afraid of what his son might do that he calls the cia when he isn't even a citizen nor is he even residing in our country and the cia basically ignores it.

i still remember when our passports were stolen and the american embassy couldn't be bothered. the reporting department was only open monday, wednesday and friday from 10-12. worse than that when i called on monday they told me they were open 3 days a week but couldn't put me thru because it was a federal holiday (in curacao???????), but didn't tell me the hours they would be open. i missed the next call in time. i called homeland security at that point and they gave me the wrong info. the ambassador finally called back and i got to give him the right info. that meant that between saturday and wednesday they didn't have the info. when i called several hours later because the police had found the passports they informed me i didn't have to bother to renew or turn them in because their computers were down and they didn't log them in.

if illegals or terrorists had gotten hold of them, what damage could they have done in 5 days? a fake id like that with a change in pictures and they are set.

Originally Posted by seashelldiver

Sherry,
Your so correct on TSA Agents......they attend a small amount of initial training and then attend seminars from there on out.....(U.S. Immigration Inspectors/Customs Agent) 16 weeks at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Academy, 8 hours a day and the training was no joke, I'm still amazed I suvived it !!!!LOL

Kathy, I heard the same thing about the Netherlands, but until we get EVERY international airport worldwide to follow suit, the terrorists will just depart from another small country and head our way once again.....the shoe bomber and now this yo-yo, sooner or later one of these idiots will be successful, hopefully not !!!!

Elaine S is still on the right track.....Daddy calls the CIA and reports his son has disowned the family and is in Yemen with a terrorist cell and some idiot CIA Agent deep sixed that intel.......that is how this attack was missed. Next time there might not be a daddy making a phone call.....YIKES !

[Elaine S]

Claudia... perfect wording, the intelligence information was deep sixed by an intelligence agency that's "supposedly" so sophisticated; that hears all and knows all. What ticks me off is that there's a lot of rhetoric, but when all's said and done ~ who will be held accountable and fired! Sadly, we the public who have a right to know will never know, and other than a few hands possibly being slapped, no one will be made to pay the price.

I hope this is a wake-up call for those who've gone to sleep; those that said "never again." We became too comfortable which led to being too negligent. And, I will again repeat that this being politically correct crap, and being afraid of offending anyone has to stop! The world is in turmoil... there's so much hate and anger against, and toward the United States that some will stop at nothing to hurt us.

[lmccollom]

This is all such a crock. People didn't do their jobs and should be fired. Period. However, the new rules and regulations are, to quote my friend Elaine, completely absurd. I pity the person who has to tell my kids (ages 8 and 10) - because it won't be me - that they have to sit still for the LAST hour of a flight with nothing in their laps and no iPod. Heck...I am not sure how I am going to sit for the last hour without my iPod or something to read!!

Somehow I feel like I am going to be wondering what I was thinking when I booked tickets in and out of National in Washington DC for Spring Break.

[dwippies]

you are going to be thinking 'thank god it's a small airport and there are many lines with someone to direct you to the shortest line'. that was my thought about national last august. it was the fastest trip thru a line i have ever experienced. barely had time to get my computer out of it's bag and i was already thru and tying my shoe laces.

Originally Posted by lmccollom

Somehow I feel like I am going to be wondering what I was thinking when I booked tickets in and out of National in Washington DC for Spring Break.

[JanetB]

I fly in/out of National all the time (10 minutes from my house) and it is a great airport - Sherry is right - the lines move quickly and it's small. However, be prepared - because it's so close to DC after 9/11 and for years (they only recently had changed that rule) you are not allowed out of your seat within 30 minutes of the airport. That never made any sense to me, since they did not institute that rule at Dulles, which is where the plane that went into the Pentagon actually came from. If you wanted to hijack a plane out of National, you'd have to do it before it left the gate in order to do anything with it in DC.

There is a group of people who for years have tried to get National shut down - they've instituted all kinds of noise reduction ordinances and stuff (no planes allowed to take-off after 10 PM and can't land after 10 unless they're on the list of approved "low noise" aircraft, etc.) - so they used 9/11 as an excuse "look how close this airport is to the White House & Capital, etc. - never bothering to look at the obvious that Dulles is probably the bigger security concern, because terrorists actually do have time to take that plane over while it's still over DC airspace). Fortunately for me, the elected officials will fight its closing all the way, as its also convenient for them. If I have to use Dulles, it's an hour drive (with no public transportation options available) and a $100 cab fare (each way).

So if they're instituting a 1 hour ban from other airports, you can expect it to probably be even stricter going in/out of National.

[dwippies]

janet, when we flew out in august, they didn't do that 30 minute thing. however, 30 minutes in your seat before arrival or departure isn't that terrible. they also seem to have lifted that hour ban thing. i heard that on the news the other day.

Originally Posted by JanetB

I fly in/out of National all the time (10 minutes from my house) and it is a great airport - Sherry is right - the lines move quickly and it's small. However, be prepared - because it's so close to DC after 9/11 and for years (they only recently had changed that rule) you are not allowed out of your seat within 30 minutes of the airport. That never made any sense to me, since they did not institute that rule at Dulles, which is where the plane that went into the Pentagon actually came from. If you wanted to hijack a plane out of National, you'd have to do it before it left the gate in order to do anything with it in DC.

There is a group of people who for years have tried to get National shut down - they've instituted all kinds of noise reduction ordinances and stuff (no planes allowed to take-off after 10 PM and can't land after 10 unless they're on the list of approved "low noise" aircraft, etc.) - so they used 9/11 as an excuse "look how close this airport is to the White House & Capital, etc. - never bothering to look at the obvious that Dulles is probably the bigger security concern, because terrorists actually do have time to take that plane over while it's still over DC airspace). Fortunately for me, the elected officials will fight its closing all the way, as its also convenient for them. If I have to use Dulles, it's an hour drive (with no public transportation options available) and a $100 cab fare (each way).

So if they're instituting a 1 hour ban from other airports, you can expect it to probably be even stricter going in/out of National.

[tico]

After reading all of these post it is obvious that somebody was not doing their job. TSA, CIA, US Government, other countries, what ever. You can point fingers all day and still not come up with the correct answer. The kicker of the whole thing is our president Obama was not about to disturb his vacation. Somebody or bodies let their guard down. With that being said my feeling on this issue is that we as travelers need to kick our guard up a notch or two and be aware of who and what is around us..we need to pay more attention of what is going on around us. When 911 happened I was working on a construction project at Logan Airport in Boston where two of the planes were hijacked...since that time I have been very aware of everything going on around me. For those of you that have met me or know me (Elaine can vouch for this) because I work inthe construction industry I tend to stay well tanned or dark skinned year round. Because of this I have been pulled out of line for a random check several times both in the states and Aruba. I like many of you don't like standing in the long lines at the airport, but if it has to do with my safety then I deal with it. But I have learned to watch everything and everyone around me, and I suggest that we all as travelers do the same
THIS IS ONLY MY OPINON...Thank you for reading this
TICO

[ruba4ever]

Here, here tico!!! I totally agree with you. I have found myself watching more dilegently things and people around me when I go anywhere. Not really sure what I would do if I saw something, but I am pretty sure I would follow an instinct if I felt threatened or afraid. Time to take a little responsibility for ourselves and our security.
ruba

[Elaine S]

Yes tico, I'll vouch for your tan... and, on a side note, don't think I'd want to "tangle" with you. lol

I tend not to want to get into a political discussion about our President; where he was, where he should have been, what he did or what he should have done - it's a no win situation, with each of us having our own opinion, and we could go round and round, and not change eachother's way of thinking. To my mind this is/was a "governmental issue," and about people within government intelligence agencies not doing their jobs; who basically dropped the ball, who became complacent, and in turn - it trickles down to the TSA employees. Each agency involved in this "lucky break" deserves much and part of the blame. As I said before, they all got lucky that this wasn't another catrastophe.

Personally, I have no problem with well thought out constructive rules. However, I do have a problem when rules are thrown out for the sake of throwing them out that are simply stupid... i.e. not using the bathroom for the last hour, and not having anything on your lap for the last hour. To my mind, if someone wants to do something "bad," they simply get to do it the hours before the last hour of a flight. To me that says... "hey hijacker or terrorist, better get the job done while you can during the first lap."

I, too, think if I saw something out of the ordinary... the adrenalin would kick in, and I'd do what I had to at that moment, and think about it later.